If you know ANYTHING about brakes... Help!

[htoudiee]

Here is the problem:
I am on my 4th set of pads (front) and 2nd set of rotors... the problem actually that when you look at my 2 month old STOCK (Bought brand new) rotors, they have this Blue (burnt metal) haze in the middle of the rotor. This burnt mark is ONLY and again ONLY on the side that is visible to your eyes. Other part that is inside the wheel is worn totally OK. this is causing small cracks on the rotor. The funny thing is that I don't brake hard at all. I don't auto cross. nothing. I'm suspecting the calipers but tell me what you think and what I should do.

I don't want this to happen to the new set of Slotted Cryo powerslots I'm getting.

[slow4dr]

I would suspect the calipers also. How much friction is there when spinning the wheel with the car in the air?

[htoudiee]

I would suspect the calipers also. How much friction is there when spinning the wheel with the car in the air?

Nothing jason. No friction. but what makes me wonder is that why 1 side of each rotor burns?!!!

[slow4dr]

Nothing jason. No friction. but what makes me wonder is that why 1 side of each rotor burns?!!!


It's tough to say really. I would suspect a misaligned caliper bracket or the caliper itself.

I have 60K miles on my stock brakes and I have a bunch of pad left with no heat issues shown on the rotor at all.

[drizze99]

freezing caliper?

I have 35K on the stock set-up with city driving.

Do you downshift to slow down?

[htoudiee]

freezing caliper?

I have 35K on the stock set-up with city driving.

Do you downshift to slow down?

Maybe freezing caliper, yeah.

Yes, i downshift to slow down mostly. why?

[el_jefe]

What do the pads look like? Are they worn about the same amount? Are they level all the way across, or are they angled? Pics would be good.

[htoudiee]

I'll post pic. That was a good question. The pads reflect the same. I looked at them 2 weeks ago (not having this question in mind so I'll say what I can remember) I think (not sure) the inside pads were NOT worn as much as the outside pads.

[newhaircut]

Sounds kind of like a "high speed glaze." Have you ever had to hit your brakes hard going above 50mph? Doing this just once can cause high speed glaze.

[htoudiee]

Sounds kind of like a "high speed glaze." Have you ever had to hit your brakes hard going above 50mph? Doing this just once can cause high speed glaze.

Yes, it has happened but no as hard like I'm going to crash.

but the thing is that, if I start driving the car for 1/2 mile, then brake VERY VERY light to a stop... the rotors again look kinda better. so it seems like the problem is an uneven pressure on the sides of rotors which I don't know why.

[newhaircut]

Yes, it has happened but no as hard like I'm going to crash.

but the thing is that, if I start driving the car for 1/2 mile, then brake VERY VERY light to a stop... the rotors again look kinda better. so it seems like the problem is an uneven pressure on the sides of rotors which I don't know why.

Well, here's the nasty thing about high speed glaze <-- depending on the pad and rotor, you can get the pad so hot that it slightly liquifies and changes density.

This density change may or may not be noticable to your eye. However, you will never break the same way again (at least on those pads) and the pads do not contact the rotor evenly. That's why you can break lightly and take away the "glaze." Also, you don't have to break like you are about to get into a wreck. A long "hard" break can do the same thing. All you have to do is break either hard enough or long enough to destroy your pads.

What I suggest is to take your rotors and have them "turned" at a break shop and get new pads. This should fix your problem. and if not...you've got a lot bigger issue to worry about.

[htoudiee]

Well, here's the nasty thing about high speed glaze <-- depending on the pad and rotor, you can get the pad so hot that it slightly liquifies and changes density.

This density change may or may not be noticable to your eye. However, you will never break the same way again (at least on those pads) and the pads do not contact the rotor evenly. That's why you can break lightly and take away the "glaze." Also, you don't have to break like you are about to get into a wreck. A long "hard" break can do the same thing. All you have to do is break either hard enough or long enough to destroy your pads.

What I suggest is to take your rotors and have them "turned" at a break shop and get new pads. This should fix your problem. and if not...you've got a lot bigger issue to worry about.


Well, I'm hoping the resurfacing the rotors and new pads help.

[lunchbox660]

i have a very similar problem as you and i have the powerslot rotors with EBC greenstuff pads. i even had the rotors turned to get rid of thr surface damage completely, and grinded the pads down fresh, but the problem stll came back, and i wasnt even doing that hard of braking. i think the real problem is just incompatible brake component selections, because the stock brakes NEVER did this to me an i used them hard. i know alot of guys with the moparsupercenter brake kits and theirs dont do it either....so i just think its a compatibility issue....IMO, the powerslots are not a durable enough rotor for high friction pads. i think if you used them with stock pads it would work, but with hig friction, they cant handle it. the MPSC rotors with the Hawk pads seem to work very weel, not to mention they cut like 2 punds off your rotating mass on each wheel as well, giving you about a 10-15 HP increase as proven on the dyno. check the other forums, the proof is posted on there with his dyno sheets and everything.

[zooey]

I would definitely suspect the caliper.If it were a hose you would feel a definite pull when you applied the brakes.

[zooey]

i have a very similar problem as you and i have the powerslot rotors with EBC greenstuff pads. i even had the rotors turned to get rid of thr surface damage completely, and grinded the pads down fresh, but the problem stll came back, and i wasnt even doing that hard of braking. i think the real problem is just incompatible brake component selections, because the stock brakes NEVER did this to me an i used them hard. i know alot of guys with the moparsupercenter brake kits and theirs dont do it either....so i just think its a compatibility issue....IMO, the powerslots are not a durable enough rotor for high friction pads. i think if you used them with stock pads it would work, but with hig friction, they cant handle it. the MPSC rotors with the Hawk pads seem to work very weel, not to mention they cut like 2 punds off your rotating mass on each wheel as well, giving you about a 10-15 HP increase as proven on the dyno. check the other forums, the proof is posted on there with his dyno sheets and everything.


Not doubting you...but how in the hell does a 8lb loss=10-15HP?

[zooey]

Maybe I should add more fibre to my diet.......:thumb:

[slow4dr]

Not doubting you...but how in the hell does a 8lb loss=10-15HP?


Well technically it would be 4 lbs because the SRT is 2wd. If you reduce rotating weight from the drive wheels it can add HP. Think of it like adding 20" blingy wheels, you will lose HP by adding weight to the drive line.

[zooey]

Well technically it would be 4 lbs because the SRT is 2wd. If you reduce rotating weight from the drive wheels it can add HP. Think of it like adding 20" blingy wheels, you will lose HP by adding weight to the drive line.


Ok...so if I take a 4lb crap in the morning...I'll gain like 4-8 hp?:jester:

[slow4dr]

Ok...so if I take a 4lb crap in the morning...I'll gain like 4-8 hp?:jester:


:rofl: NO :rofl:

[zooey]

What if I make it rotate???? :jester:

[StreetRaceGN]

Make sure the caliper slides move freely. If that's ok, I've found misadjusted master cylinder rods on other cars that would actually cause the brakes to drag slightly.

[lunchbox660]

What if I make it rotate???? :jester:


well, i guess if you took a crap on your rims or brake rotors and made it stick and then did a dyno pull and then cleaned it off and did another pull, then yeah sure....it should have a similar effect...lol.

go to the other crappy site and look up MPSC's drag 2 brake rotors, thats where i found the info.

as jason said earlier (thank you jason) let rotational mass means that it is easier for the engine to spin the wheels. so theoretically, you could get some light ass wheels, some lighter brake rotors, lighter tires and without doing any "power" mods, you could prolly gain 10 hp or so just from that alone....of course this is all in theory, i have never proven it myself...heavy wheels own me....

[blackbird]

So is this happening to both front rotors or on all four? Unless you're doing a ton of high speed stops/racing/riding the brakes down mountain passes the bluing you're seeing is caused by excessive heat from the friction material slightly rubbing over time. The reason why you'd see it only on one side is that it's a floating caliper and if the piston is just starting to engage (brake) it pushes against the outside of the rotor first. Anything more than a very slight braking pressure would cause it to squeeze hard enough to engage both pads and you'd see wear on both sides

Any chance at some point before this started did you remove the brake light switch, such as to re-route the wiring that sits on the toe board and gets crushed when the clutch pedal is pressed? Even if you didn't, check to make sure that the switch isn't keeping the brake pedal from fully returning.

Since it's happening on more than one wheel that should rule out caliper problems unless you removed or did something to all of them. While checking the brake light switch adjustment also make sure there isn't anything keeping the pedal assembly from fully disengaging. There's also a chance the master cylinder or booster could have a problem and isn't opening/returning after braking which could cause the slight drag.

(Last thing, since "operator error" never causes any problems ( :lol: ), make sure your foot never rests on or against the side of the brake pedal while driving.)

[slow4dr]

Just to clarify again............

This burnt mark is ONLY and again ONLY on the side that is visible to your eyes.

[blackbird]

Just to clarify again............

What's getting clarified and for who? :)

Friction material rubbing on the outside (visible) side of the rotor because the caliper starts to push on that side first and then pulls the other pad against the inside of the rotor. So if this is happening on two or more rotors than there's something causing the pads to slightly remain in contact, which is generating the heat that is causing the bluing/burning and leading to the stress cracks.

[el_jefe]

i have a very similar problem as you and i have the powerslot rotors with EBC greenstuff pads. i even had the rotors turned to get rid of thr surface damage completely, and grinded the pads down fresh, but the problem stll came back, and i wasnt even doing that hard of braking. i think the real problem is just incompatible brake component selections, because the stock brakes NEVER did this to me an i used them hard. i know alot of guys with the moparsupercenter brake kits and theirs dont do it either....so i just think its a compatibility issue....IMO, the powerslots are not a durable enough rotor for high friction pads. i think if you used them with stock pads it would work, but with hig friction, they cant handle it.

The EBC brake pads are dogshit as well. They destroyed my front rotors, but when I got them they were the only pads on the market. :owned:

[slow4dr]

What's getting clarified and for who? :)

Friction material rubbing on the outside (visible) side of the rotor because the caliper starts to push on that side first and then pulls the other pad against the inside of the rotor. So if this is happening on two or more rotors than there's something causing the pads to slightly remain in contact, which is generating the heat that is causing the bluing/burning and leading to the stress cracks.

For ANYONE reading. He already said he doesn't have any binding problems.

[Shrep]

Well...likely you have a caliper dragging...even if only lightly.

Most likely this quote is an indicator of your actual problem:
if I start driving the car for 1/2 mile, then brake VERY VERY light to a stop...


From some of the things you've posted, it seems that you're braking early, and lightly to stop when possible...this I'm sure is an attempt to decrease wear and whatnot...

However, light contact for longer periods (cause it takes longer to stop with less pressure) actually builds up more heat, and the rotors have a much more difficult time dissipating it.

When I'm at the track, I never brake early...the longer you're braking, the more heat, the more heat, the less effecient...etc. Just a quick hard stab is the best.

For the street, you need to find something in between. You don't want to go flying up to a stop light, only to begin braking at 10ft...but you don't want to start 1000ft back either...you will undoubtedly go through pads faster, and overheat your rotors.

I do think that the fact that you're seeing the blueing and wear on only one side of the rotor is definately indicative of some light caliper drag too.

[blackbird]

I'm still waiting to see if ht says which rotors this is happening on. It sounds like maybe both fronts, or is it all of them or just one? More than one rotor is going to greatly rule out the chance of it being a caliper problem, although it's not impossible.