return line

[punkrokdood]

Well, i jsut installed an AGP return line, and i must say... my car is slow as hell :lol:

no matter how much i adjust the regulator, it won't go over 40 psi, and when i drive, and go into boost it bogs down and sputters out, just like hitting fuel cut. Its acting like the pump isn't providing enough fuel, but it doesn't make sense since i'm running at a lower than stock fuel pressure, but other people had the exact same problem until they installed the upgraded pump. I already have a walbro 255 just haven't installed it yet. So, i plan on getting that installed to see if it helps, problem is, i jsut filled my tank last night :ftard: :owned:

if anyone else has suggestions, let me know

[lunchbox660]

what are all your other mods and how much boost are you running? also what is the approximate elevation where you live? i have a return line on mine and i am running 23 pounds of boost and it still runs fairly rich, but my guess is that i fyou are increasing your fuel pressure, your increasing it too much and that is why it is boggind down. get back to me right away, id like to help you get this solved so you can truly use its potential. also, do you have a wideband? you really should be using one if you are messing with fuel. get back to me ASAP.

joe

[punkrokdood]

what are all your other mods and how much boost are you running? also what is the approximate elevation where you live? i have a return line on mine and i am running 23 pounds of boost and it still runs fairly rich, but my guess is that i fyou are increasing your fuel pressure, your increasing it too much and that is why it is boggind down. get back to me right away, id like to help you get this solved so you can truly use its potential. also, do you have a wideband? you really should be using one if you are messing with fuel. get back to me ASAP.

joe
haven't installed my wideband yet. i need to weld in the bung, or install it after the cat. I may install it after the cat for now. i'm running stage 2, stock lines to the agp WGA. basically, i'm making 0psi right now because as soon as it got into boost, it cuts out, so i lossened the wga so that it won't make boost. I'm on stock stage1 injectors, and 60mm throttle body. at idle we couldn't adjust it higher than 40 psi, which doesn't sound right at all, especially since aaronneon reccommends 50 psi on stock injectors.

approximate elevation is like 10 feet :lol:

[lunchbox660]

wow. something is seriously wrong then if you arent even getting it to boost. did you block off the stock regulator properly with waterweld and let it dry?

are you setting it to 40 psi with the vacuum line hooked up or with it off? this matters alot, since if you adjust it with it off and then hook it up, you will lose about 5 PSI, and vice versa if you do it the opposite way.

did you use some sort of thread sealer or something on the connections that might be plugging something up?

have you checked for any kinks in the line?

this makes no sense to me at all. i wish i could see your setup, cus something is def. wrong.

hook up your wideband! do it NOW! that will help you find your problem for sure. if you are running catless, just use the downstream bung and remove your stock sensor since the Stage kits dont use it. thats what im doing currently.

my setup is as follows:
FPR set to 41 PSI ( i have a check valve on my vacuum line, so vacuum is not a factor for me)
boosting 23 pounds
stock injectors
map clamp at around 4.1-4.3 volts
S1 PCM

with this tune, the car still runs mid 11's AFR and gets nearly NO knock on shitty 91 pump gas. i am at about 2500 feet elevation, so that has some bearing on it, but i have run my car at sea level and it still runs high 11's and low 12's AFR and still gets no knock.

where in socal do you live? mebbe if its not too far i can meet you when i get off work tonight and help you trouble shoot. i dont mind driving a ways if you dont mind kicking a little green for gas. i just wanna make sure you get it running right cus i would hate to see soemthing bad happen due to improper tuning. i live in 29 palms, 92277. i get off around 7 pm. if you want to meet, let me know where and i'll see what i can do.

[punkrokdood]

wow. something is seriously wrong then if you arent even getting it to boost. did you block off the stock regulator properly with waterweld and let it dry?
Its the AGP kit, so it comes with a billet piece that plugs the factory regulator, and it is plugged

are you setting it to 40 psi with the vacuum line hooked up or with it off? this matters alot, since if you adjust it with it off and then hook it up, you will lose about 5 PSI, and vice versa if you do it the opposite way.
it wouldn't go above 40 either way, with the plug on or off

did you use some sort of thread sealer or something on the connections that might be plugging something up?
no, nothing, jsut screwed them on tight

have you checked for any kinks in the line?
yes, all the lines are straight

this makes no sense to me at all. i wish i could see your setup, cus something is def. wrong.
some people had the same problem and upgraded the fuel pump, but i don't think that the stock pump should have problems pumping over 40psi. the gauge might be bad, but i doubt it because anything below 40, and it works fine

hook up your wideband! do it NOW! that will help you find your problem for sure. if you are running catless, just use the downstream bung and remove your stock sensor since the Stage kits dont use it. thats what im doing currently.
I'm running with a cat, so i want to install the wideband pre-cat, but i've been thinking i may run it after the cat, and tune a little rich

my setup is as follows:
FPR set to 41 PSI ( i have a check valve on my vacuum line, so vacuum is not a factor for me)
boosting 23 pounds
stock injectors
map clamp at around 4.1-4.3 volts
S1 PCM

with this tune, the car still runs mid 11's AFR and gets nearly NO knock on shitty 91 pump gas. i am at about 2500 feet elevation, so that has some bearing on it, but i have run my car at sea level and it still runs high 11's and low 12's AFR and still gets no knock.

where in socal do you live? mebbe if its not too far i can meet you when i get off work tonight and help you trouble shoot. i dont mind driving a ways if you dont mind kicking like 5 or 10 bucks at me for gas. i just wanna make sure you get it running right cus i would hate to see soemthing bad happen due to improper tuning. i live in 29 palms, 92277. i get off around 7 pm. if you want to meet, let me know where and i'll see what i can do.
I live in san diego, 92115... i don't think there is much i can do tonight since there is minimal light in my garage... i may try to install the wideband and see how that goes. i can't really tun much because it just cuts out as soon as i hit boost. i was boosting 20 psi before the return line install, with almost no preload on the WGA, so it was running fine before. I do not have a clamp of any kind so i'm wondering if its possible that the computer is seeing too much fuel with the return line, and cutting fuel???

[lunchbox660]

i wouldnt bother installing yoru wideband behind a cat, its going to be way too inaccurate. might as well wait to do the bung weld. you want sure accuracy when you tune a turbo at sea level on 91 pump gas, so the cat is a bad idea, no matter how rich you go cus it still wont be a true reading. if you wanted to, you could stick it in the upper bung and go do WOT tuning, cus the car ignores the sensor when its at WOT anyway and goes to base maps, so even tho youll get a CEL, it will still run at WOT fine, thats how me and adam tuned mine on the dyno. then we just reset the PCM to make the light go off, and ran it from there.

if it wont go past 40 psi no matter what you do then there is for sure a problem, since the stock fuel pressure is 58 psi. youve go something plugged up somewhere that is restricting your flow. you are prolly running hella lean, even at the 40 psi you have, because when you boost it up, it still isnt going over 40 psi, so it is staying WAY lean and knocking like a biotch.

double check the vacuum line you have going to the regulator and make sure it is in vacuum at idle and make sure it is a line that sees boost when you are in boost. if you have a check valve on it, make sure you have it turned the right way. it should allow boost to go to the regulator, but not vacuum...for example, like this...


boost------->checkvalve----->FPR vacuum nipple
and when at idle, if you hook up this line, the needle shoud not drop, if you are using a check valve properly.

there are some lines on the car that have check valves, so if you tapped into one of them, it might have been the wrong one. let me know what source you are using for vacuum and wether or not you used a check valve. if you did, then let me know which way you installed it.

[lunchbox660]

i know my FPR is in a different spot than yours prolly, but the setup should still be the same regardless. look at the vacuum source. see the little splice in it that is white? that is where you should put a check valve. you dont NEED it, but it will run alot better at idle and will help you to set your pressure alot better. that white piece on mine in the pic is NOT a check valve, it is just a vacuum joint, but that is where i put the check valve when i got it. see above post to make sure you install it the rigth direction.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/lunchbox660/cars/blacked%20out%20engine%20bay/fakkenbig.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/lunchbox660/cars/blacked%20out%20engine%20bay/DSC01785.jpg

[punkrokdood]

no check valve, and its t'd right off the throttle body. removed the line to turn up the FPR, but it wouldn't go past 40.

[lunchbox660]

i know this sounds dumb, but did you check to make sure the jamb nut isnt tight? it needs to be loosened up for you to go any tighter...i know thats a dumb question, but it might really be that simple....

[punkrokdood]

i know this sounds dumb, but did you check to make sure the jamb nut isnt tight? it needs to be loosened up for you to go any tighter...i know thats a dumb question, but it might really be that simple....
to be honest, i never tightened it all the way. i watched it go from like 19 psi then turned and turned all the way to 40, and it was about half way on the nut it looked like, and then jsut kept turning and turning and turning, and it never got any higher. I can try to go all the way tight, but shouldn't that be like 70 psi?

[lunchbox660]

try this, just for shits and gigles. just take the jamb nut all the way to the top of the screw, then try tightening the crew down and see if you can get it to go over 40 psi then. if it does, then you just didnt have the jamb nut high enough. if not, then we know that the regulator is not the problem and it is somewhere else. let me know and we'll work from there.

[lunchbox660]

i know when i put mine on, i had to turn it quite a bit to get it to where it is now too, so mebbe you just havent given it enough turns yet. i hope this is it, i hope its this simple, cus i want you to be able to go out with it...

on a side note, how come you are running stage 2 PCM on S1 injectors? do you have S2 injectors? if so, sell them to me! :thumbsup:

[punkrokdood]

i know when i put mine on, i had to turn it quite a bit to get it to where it is now too, so mebbe you just havent given it enough turns yet. i hope this is it, i hope its this simple, cus i want you to be able to go out with it...

on a side note, how come you are running stage 2 PCM on S1 injectors? do you have S2 injectors? if so, sell them to me! :thumbsup:
ok, i just adjusted it all the way... still sitting at jsut over 40 psi, maybe 42. i read on the other site that someone had this problem with an o ring to the regulator... i'll check that tommorrow... probably rip it all apart and start over, making sure everything is clear, then try again. i'm running s1 injectors because of the return line :lol:

here's the story... friend of mine down here is going back to basically stock, and he wanted to get rid of his return line, so he gave it to me for my S2 injectors+ $50, so i was all over it... I wouldn't have even installed it yet, but he needed the stock regulator for his car, so i got his blocked stock regulator, and he got my stock regulator. Everything worked fine in his car, then as soon as it went in mine, boom, nothing. I know the guy isn't rippin me off or anything, so its not that. He said he had a similar problem when he first installed it, and he put in a bigger pump, and it all worked fine. i remember when he went through all that before, so i know he's telling the truth. its strage because its acting like the pump can't support it, but i can't see why that would be. i guess its possible there's a blockage somwhere, but i don't know where. the stock regulator was replaced, but it worked in his car, then from there, its stock lines all the way to the aeromotive regulator, then the line to the rail is new, and the return is new. so between the tank and engine, all that changed was the modded stock regulator, the Aeromotive FPR, the line from the fpr to the rail, and the S1 injectors, which were mine before, and i know they work

[punkrokdood]

found this from AGP, posting it here for easy reference:



1. Pull return line at the filler neck off and see if fuel is returning back to the tank. If it is flowing back to the tank, it could be something wrong with the Aeromotive regulator bypassing all of the fuel, or not enough preload on the spring. If there is no fuel returning back to the tank, move to step 2.

2. Remove billet fitting at the firewall and turn key to on position. This should make a HUGE mess and make certain there is nothing around to spark. If it does make a huge mess it could be something wrong with the Aeromotive regulator or you don't have enough preload pressure on the spring. If little to no fuel comes out of the stock line at the firewall, something went wrong in the stock regulator when you re-installed it, like missing the o ring, or pulled some wires out that go to the pump.

3. Easy way to check if there is something wrong with the regulator. Skip steps 1 and 2, and put the stock line back on between the firewall and rail. If car starts, something wrong with either the Aeromotive regulator or the preload on the regulator spring. If car does not start, again something wrong with the stock regulator install and/or pulled some wires when you were back in that area of the car.


Does the pump turn on?

[punkrokdood]

also, with the wideband, i've been told that it only makes 1-2 tenths difference to install it after the cat, which if that is the case, then as long as i keep a conservative tune, it should be ok... like 11.5 or so, if its a little leaner than than, its not really dangerous at all

[lunchbox660]

hope you are able o figure this out. if not, let me know and i can meet you tomorrow.

[punkrokdood]

hope you are able o figure this out. if not, let me know and i can meet you tomorrow.
thanks... i don't see it being something huge... its gotta be something a little off. i read a few things about the o-ring on the stock regulator, so i wouldn't be suprised if that was it

[The-Violator]

I'm willing to bet it's the stock regulator.. When you removed it to plug it, you probably pinched the oring putting it back in, or it came off completely when you removed it and it is just sittnig in there all crooked when you reinstalled the regulator.. That exact same thing happened to me.. Mine was just a little crooked so I could still get like 50psi, but no more.. I removed it and sure enough the little oring wasn't on.. I had to drop the tank low enough to where I could get in there and fish it out of the regulator hole... Put it back on and CAREFULLY reinstalled and has worked perfectly ever since..

[lunchbox660]

damn i guess i must have just gotten really lucky then with mine and it didnt happen to me....

[blackbird]

My guess would be a either the bypassed regulator is leaking pressure back at the tank or a problem with the Aeromotive FPR itself. And I'm guessing you already checked to make sure the lines are connected correctly.

If you're still having problems and can't find anything and read this before tomorrow afternoon drop me a PM. I'm working the 3rd shift tonight up here in the north county and I think I have my scan tool still in the car (can watch what fuel trims are doing and see if it's running rich/lean under boost). Otherwise if you're bringing it up to the dyno day this weekend we could take a look at it then.


When you removed it to plug it, you probably pinched the oring putting it back in, or it came off completely when you removed it and it is just sittnig in there all crooked when you reinstalled the regulator.When you install them make sure there's a light coat of oil on the o-ring to prevent binding (just like when you change injectors). If you don't have a quart sitting around use some off the dipstick.

[punkrokdood]

i'm gonna go down and check things out now... i'm pretty sure its the stock regulator after all i've read, now i just need to get in there... i'll report back :thumb:

[punkrokdood]

the return line is functioning normally now... BIG thanks to eric (blackbird.) As it turns out the stock regulator wasn't seating properly, so it was allowing fuel to flow back into the tank. After looking at other pictures of stock regulators, it doesn't look like what eric and i originally thought it might be, but the fix that's in there seems to be doing the trick. MY car is running insanely rich though. I watched the wideband, and it just stays off the charts. I wasn't able to take it all the way up to redline, but up over 5500 rpm it was still off the charts rich. It also backfires a little at the onset of boost, so it still needs a little tuning, but its working MUCH better than it was

[lunchbox660]

take some pressure off it then...or crank down your map clamp a lil bit if youve got one. now that you got it running right, you are gonna LOVE it!

[Aaronneon]

Whats a return line?

[lunchbox660]

Whats a return line?

i think its the line you have to stand in at mcdonalds when you find a nose hair in your big mac...

[punkrokdood]

ok, the final thing... the problem all along was the top o- ring :lol:

it was missing the entire time, so i never saw it, and thought everyone was talking about the blue one :ftard:

the seal we were able to make up in there is working fine for now