Log in

View Full Version : tuning with map clamp and eugo...


spools
04-24-2019, 05:31 AM
ok.. i need some help/opinions.. right now i am running a 18 spike falling to 16 or so. eugo is not hoooked up right now nor is the map clamp. wed is the day for the installation. what kind of boost should one be looking to run with slightly bigger injectors as the only fuel mod. is spiking like 22 or so falling to 17 or even 18 pushing the limits with the map clamp, or is that something that i can accomplish. im not sure of the size of my injectors, and i cant post pics.. anyone know how i can figure it out?

the mods that i am sure of are the kinetic WGA, "different" injectors, stage 2 act clutch, aem sri, aem eugo coming, map clamp coming.. the fuel rail, fuel pump, map sensor and tip sensor are possibles... we think they may be upgraded, but havent figured it out yet.. the pcm is also a maybe. i dunno if it is stage 0 or what... sucky used cars...

Broken5hift
04-24-2019, 08:40 AM
ok.. i need some help/opinions.. right now i am running a 18 spike falling to 16 or so. eugo is not hoooked up right now nor is the map clamp. wed is the day for the installation. what kind of boost should one be looking to run with slightly bigger injectors as the only fuel mod. is spiking like 22 or so falling to 17 or even 18 pushing the limits with the map clamp, or is that something that i can accomplish. im not sure of the size of my injectors, and i cant post pics.. anyone know how i can figure it out?

the mods that i am sure of are the kinetic WGA, "different" injectors, stage 2 act clutch, aem sri, aem eugo coming, map clamp coming.. the fuel rail, fuel pump, map sensor and tip sensor are possibles... we think they may be upgraded, but havent figured it out yet.. the pcm is also a maybe. i dunno if it is stage 0 or what... sucky used cars...

id recommend a fuel return line

spools
04-25-2019, 12:00 AM
i know i need a return line, but I am strapped for cash too... so the regulator is what i got now...

blackbird
04-25-2019, 01:04 AM
I remember reading your other post about not knowing what you've got. That would be the very first thing I'd find out before modifying the car. How can you know what's safe if you don't know what you're starting with?

You need to either post some detailed pictures (or email some to somebody here), get with another local SRT-4 owner who is very familiar with the cars, or do a little more research yourself. Such as, what does the label on the front of the PCM say near the connectors (and does it have another sticker with the last digits of the VIN)? Does the MAP sensor on the intake manifold say "3 BAR" (and some of the later ones won't say this)? Does the fuel rail have any vacuum lines going to the center of it? What color are the injectors? What does the lettering on the turbocharger say? If the Kinetic WGA isn't on the car yet, does the arm on the other one have a threaded end with and adjustment nut?

You have to figure out what you have, whether that means pulling the injectors out to get flow tested or something simple like taking the intake out to read the PCM label. How can anyone say what's safe if we don't know what you have. You might be running too much boost right now if you end up having a stock/S1 computer and injectors. If you do want to raise the boost do it slowly, and after you install the wideband. I'd also suggest getting one of the new timing/knock gauges and/or a scan tool to watch fuel trims, etc. Play it safe or it could be an expensive mistake. :thumb:

spools
04-25-2019, 05:28 AM
I remember reading your other post about not knowing what you've got. That would be the very first thing I'd find out before modifying the car. How can you know what's safe if you don't know what you're starting with?

You need to either post some detailed pictures (or email some to somebody here), get with another local SRT-4 owner who is very familiar with the cars, or do a little more research yourself. Such as, what does the label on the front of the PCM say near the connectors (and does it have another sticker with the last digits of the VIN)? Does the MAP sensor on the intake manifold say "3 BAR" (and some of the later ones won't say this)? Does the fuel rail have any vacuum lines going to the center of it? What color are the injectors? What does the lettering on the turbocharger say? If the Kinetic WGA isn't on the car yet, does the arm on the other one have a threaded end with and adjustment nut?

You have to figure out what you have, whether that means pulling the injectors out to get flow tested or something simple like taking the intake out to read the PCM label. How can anyone say what's safe if we don't know what you have. You might be running too much boost right now if you end up having a stock/S1 computer and injectors. If you do want to raise the boost do it slowly, and after you install the wideband. I'd also suggest getting one of the new timing/knock gauges and/or a scan tool to watch fuel trims, etc. Play it safe or it could be an expensive mistake. :thumb:

i have kinda figured it out now.. the map sensor doesnt say 3 bar on it, the turbo is stock and the wga was stock too, i switched it for the kinetic... the fuel rail does NOT have a line going to the middle of it... the only thing i got now that i can tell isnt stock is the injectors. but i dont know how big they are. they are ALL purple. thats all i know. and my gasmileage is poor. the computer has 2 stickers on it. one on the top which hsa the vin number and another series of numbers and letters in big lettering (5 or 6 letters and numbers) and a sticker on the side with a s/n and p/n. im guessing stock but dont know for sure and dealership couldnt tell me anything. i have the boost set at 10 lbs right now. i did this 1 because everyone is right, i dont know what i got, and 2 it helps me keep my foot off the gas while breaking in new clutch.

new problem though.. i had my hood popped today looking at the comp and stuff and i could hear a metal rattleing noise or vibration coming from the turbo area. sounds like the turbo itself, but i dunno. i checked it yesterday and there was no shaftplay at all and i checked with a mirror and i saw maybe 1 itty bitty chip on a blade, but nothing real knoticable. nobody else could even see what i was talking about. any idea on what it could be? i am going to recheck all brackets and nuts and bolts, but i was just wondering if anyone has ever heard this sound from a turbo and know what it could be. it really sounds like the turbo, but there is no shaft play at all.

blackbird
04-25-2019, 05:45 AM
Is one of the stickers the last 6 digits of your VIN number and hand written in black marker (on the black side near the connectors)? I'm not sure if I posted in another thread, but I'm pretty sure the stock '03 injectors are a pink/purplish color, and they flow even less than the '04+ injectors (and is why Stage 1 comes with an injector upgrade on '03s and the other years do not). If you do still have the stock '03 injector you really, really don't have any extra fuel to play with. Even Stage 1 is only good for a couple extra safe pounds of boost. Install the wideband and take it slow. You'll more than likely need some type of fuel system upgrade (injectors or return kit with adjust pressure regulator) to go much higher as far as boost.

spools
04-25-2019, 07:28 AM
wow, good info. I was told that the 03 injectors were black with a purpleish band. yea, i def am going to get a return line kit, regulator and injectors if this is the case. eugo will be done today and i will let yall know how its running. black any idea on the noise from my turbo/turbo area?

blackbird
04-25-2019, 02:44 PM
A loose heat shield bolt? Some other bracket? Trying to diagnose noise over the internet would be like trying to diagnose a skin infection you picked up from a $2 hooker. You can describe the festering boil but without seeing it (and not that I'd want to), it's hard to say what you've got. Look over everything including mounts, see if the exhaust is hitting, and brackets or pieces that bolt to the engine, etc.

DJ2
04-25-2019, 03:26 PM
didn't you post in the other thread that you messed up your vac lines and ran your turbo up to over 30 psi? or at least to the point where it hit the needle?

spools
04-27-2019, 03:09 PM
yup, that was me. i found the prob, it was the kinetic WGA. dont know what was rattleing, but i put the stocker back on and the noise is gone...

spools
04-27-2019, 03:11 PM
also got my map clamp installed and my eugo. started at 4.7 and adjusted from there. got my A/f at 11.5 and falling into the 10's at redline. is that right? i figured it would get leaner. i gutted my cat and installed the eugo o2 in the stock 02 bung. will it still read accuratly there with the cat gutted?

Broken5hift
04-27-2019, 03:15 PM
also got my map clamp installed and my eugo. started at 4.7 and adjusted from there. got my A/f at 11.5 and falling into the 10's at redline. is that right? i figured it would get leaner. i gutted my cat and installed the eugo o2 in the stock 02 bung. will it still read accuratly there with the cat gutted?

no it should never hit 10's thats pig rich. we just tuned a friends car last night who had this problem, he's now resting between 11.6 and 12.1

you dont have the fuel return line do you? we solved the problem by correct the fuel pressure regulator from 54 lbs to 39 lbs

spools
04-27-2019, 03:41 PM
no fuel return line, all i got it the different injectors. but they do have a dodge symbol stamped on the side of em... dunno how big they are. so should i turn the boost up a pount or 2 to lean it out a bit. i am sitting at 14. spiking and holding. maybe go up to 16 and see how it does?

Broken5hift
04-27-2019, 03:50 PM
no fuel return line, all i got it the different injectors. but they do have a dodge symbol stamped on the side of em... dunno how big they are. so should i turn the boost up a pount or 2 to lean it out a bit. i am sitting at 14. spiking and holding. maybe go up to 16 and see how it does?

i wouldnt do a damn thing till you get that fuel return line. it sound like your messing with the timing too much for the A/F your running

DJ2
04-27-2019, 04:36 PM
i wouldnt do a damn thing till you get that fuel return line. it sound like your messing with the timing too much for the A/F your running
if he has S2 injectors, he does not need a return line...

spools
04-28-2019, 08:20 AM
there are a few things that are confusing me and some of my buddies who all have srt's. first off stock for stock when we first bought our cars (assuming i was stock) they couldnt keep up with me at all. our exhaust notes are completely different (mine is louder with more of a gurgle), when i rev it up, my rpms fall back down to idle really fast, theres goes down slower (my flywheel is stock, i just changed clutch), now i have the map clamp and those injectors and that is it, my buddy has an 04 with map clamps, agp big FMIC, AGP WGA, boost controller. he is spiking 18 and holding 16 at redline. i was only holding 14 and spiking 14. we went at it last night and i beat him. we just dont understand how that is possible. i know it aint driving he is a damn good driver

Broken5hift
04-28-2019, 08:22 AM
if he has S2 injectors, he does not need a return line...

yes you do, you need the line with the fuel pressure regulator. a fuel return line isnt just for looks its a tool to tune like a map clamp

bones srt-4
09-28-2019, 12:21 AM
no it should never hit 10's thats pig rich. we just tuned a friends car last night who had this problem, he's now resting between 11.6 and 12.1

you dont have the fuel return line do you? we solved the problem by correct the fuel pressure regulator from 54 lbs to 39 lbs

is that with or without the vac line on ?

blackbird
09-28-2019, 05:23 AM
is that with or without the vac line on ?
I haven't read the thread again, but just a note on using the vacuum/boost reference line to a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. On a car with the stock turbo you'll see more fuel pressure (i.e. go richer) in the mid-range as boost builds but when the exhaust side of the turbo starts choking off flow and boost starts to drop up on the top end, your fuel pressure will also start to drop (i.e. go leaner). So if you're using it in combination with a piggyback it might be more tuning headaches than it's worth to get a nice, safe A/F curve and even harder or impossible if you're using something simpler like a MAP clamp. On the other hand if you have a properly sized big turbo that builds boost all the way up to redline it can be a nice way to get extra fuel and still idle well on larger injectors.

liteshow
09-28-2019, 12:38 PM
i gutted my cat and installed the eugo o2 in the stock 02 bung. will it still read accuratly there with the cat gutted?

From my understanding,
You being stage 0 need the use of the downstream O2 to complete your fuel trims. The PCM doesn't use it and goes open loop when you're using a stage kit. All it looks for is if it's heated/ connected.

blackbird
09-28-2019, 05:09 PM
The second, downstream sensor is used on stock, non-"Stage" PCM's to calculate catalytic converter efficiency to ensure compliance with stricter emission laws. How much fuel is injected and subsequently the fuel trims are only determined from the upstream sensor which is only used in closed loop operation. The "Stage" PCM's operate exactly the same as stock which means the same open and closed loop operation. The "Stage" kits are programmed to calculate catalytic efficiency but do look for the sensor. My educated guess is because the "Stage" kits are based off the Mexican market PCM programming which are a quasi-OBD-II/pre-OBD-II (i.e. OBD-I) mix.

With a gutted cat you can place the wideband sensor in the second bung with no problem, and could even use it there with the cat in place, but you'd sacrifice accuracy. On the "Stage" cars you can remove the second sensor but need to leave it plugged into the harness and tie it up to the car's body somewhere to prevent throwing a code (remember its heated and will get very hot and if exposed to the elements will kill it). A stock car will throw a code for cat efficiency/emission system failure if you remove the second sensor even if it's left plugged in but you might be able to trick the PCM with an appropriate resistor in-line with the removed sensor.

liteshow
09-28-2019, 05:20 PM
Wow so the $18 O2 does all the work and the $88 one is for emissions shit and basically does nothing. What a deal!!

punkrokdood
09-28-2019, 05:22 PM
Wow so the $18 O2 does all the work and the $88 one is for emissions shit and basically does nothing. What a deal!!
i wouldn't say it does NOTHING, it throws a code that will cause you to fail emissions, then force you to pay $88 on a sensor that does nothing :rofl:

|