Aaronneon's 300hp stock turbo upgrade path

[Hitman]

FMIC
I prefer AGPs or PSI-FI

3 inch exhaust
Any full turbo back

map clamp [emanage-safc] - 4.0-4.2 volts clamping
Dasmopar clamp, ED emanage, or anyones SAFC. Stage 2 cars should clamp at 3.2-3.5 volts

return line kit
Aaronneons ....duuhh

WGA@ 20-22 psi
AGP!

Plugs gapped @ .30-.32
Stock plugs work the best for me

94-110 octane
Sunoco

No boost leaks
Check and double check!! Zip tie ALL vacuum lines

12.5 MAX a/f ratio. This is the highest I will allow. I keep the cars around 11.5-12.5[max]

Stage 1 or 2 injectors will work perfect
With a return line, the stage 1 injectors will be more than enough fuel that the stock turbo will use. No 750ccs newbs.

Stage 0-2 PCM
There is no need for stage 2. If you have it already, I would sell it. If not, then it can still be done.


= 300+whp everytime. I think theres like 11-12 guys here in Ohio alone that are at that mark.

A 60mm TB at this point will help with the midrange, dont expect peak power to raise much. The same with a ported intake manifold. Doing headwork or an aftermarket intake manifold will get you more peak power. W/I is a great idea to help keep the car safe. It is not needed but does help. I have no experience with cams with a 300whp stock turbo car, but that is coming.

Nickspi`s car holds the record for most power so far... 329whp. We are adding a ported TB, exhaust manifold and turbo to raise that number soon. Then we will play with cams. He also doesnt have a fuel computer, so we will get one of those on.


Very simple. NO NEED!!! to ask questions. Buy the mods listed above. Make sure you use good gas. Make sure there are no boost leaks. Make sure the plugs are gapped like listed above. Make sure you have a good a/f ratio. The car will last if you keep up with maintence and watch the A/F ratio.


Please make this a sticky. I have backed this up with over 10 cars. Dasmopar and Vector have with numerous cars also. It will save me from answering the same questions over and over again.

[Hitman]

Here are some frequently asked questions answered by aaronneon.

Modification Questions


Can it be done without a voltage clamp of some sort?

I would say most likely not. The timing tables are just to low. My theory would be water/alchy, cams and a good ported head , and trying different things on the dyno might get it done. I just dont see the point in not using a clamp though. The safc, emanage, mamp clamp, dtec, power paq will all make it easier.


What is a map clamp?


very simple. The clamp hides boost from the PCM, which in turn keeps timing high. It also leans the fuel curve out.

Why do you ask? Real simple. Every turbo car from the Factory is programed to give more fuel and less timing when the ecu reads higher boost. Now this is dependent to the map sensor. Via 2 bar or 3 bar..or whatever. The map sensor reads the boost and sends a signal via 5 volt , voltage to the pcm. The higher the volts, the more fuel and less timing the motor will see. THis is done to keep yahoos from blowing their motors. The thing is, Mopar went over board with it. They claim that the EGTs[ exhaust temps] get to high with increased boost. That basically means that turning up the boost, even with a healthy A/F ratio can melt your motor. Thats not a good thing. Now we solve that problem via the map clamp. The map clamp will keep the timing high, in turn bleeds some of the EGTs off. I have proven this a million times. Im not going to get into anymore of that crap.


The map clamp will only allow a certain voltage pass through to the pcm. As i stated before the higher the voltage seen by the pcm, the lower the timing and more fuel you get. We all know the srt runs very rich from the factory. So just leaning it out some will make power, let alone raising timing. The map clamp is adjustable so it can act like a fuel mod also. Its basically a crude SAFC, which is a map clamp per rpm instead of per boost.


Will other mods substituded for the ones listed work?


Absolutley. A dumped exhaust will work inplace of a 3"" exhaust. Contact needswings for one. Water alchy will help alot and also bring the egts down and raise timing. I dont recommend other WGA`s though. AGP is by far the best, trust me. I have tried them all. Any piggy back will work in place of the map clamp... I like the dtec the best.


Are all the mods needed?

No. The mods listed are what i feel will keep the car safe and have been proven time and again to work. Others will go a different route. Some it will take more mods and some will take less.


Do I have to use a staged pcm?

No. Any of the pcms out there will get it done. THats why I recommend the stock pcm. Why spend the money if its not needed. IF you want a plug and play car, get a mopar kit. If you want more and are going to tune it, stick with the stocker. If you already have a staged kit, you can sell it, or use it..your choice. The stage 2 is more of a prick with the piggybacks. Yes you can get them to work, but the pcm does act up with some of the piggies out there.

Is the return line needed?

If you are using a stage 2 car or bigger injectors with a piggyback, No it isnt. Its the easiest and cheapest way so thats why I recommend it.


Is a bigger fuel pump needed?

No a walbro 255 is not needed. The stock pump is good enough, but the 255 is only 100 beans. So its a good cheap mod that can be done while adding a return line.

Should I use a cooler thermostat?

YES! You will need to keep the car cool, otherwise your 300whp will drop pretty fast when racing. I recommend a fan switch! A fan switch is your friend. Look in the how 2 section for that. I use a 160 stat, and like it. Others like the 180. Each one will work fine.

Can i use a boostcontroller?

Yes. They arent needed with the AGP wga, thats why I dont mention them. They also spike the turbo more. They will work though

Are colder spark plugs needed?

NO. The stock plugs gapped as listed, work fine. Agp sells a nice set if you want to go aftermarket

Is a bigger FMIC needed?

I havent tuned a 300whp without one, but I would say no. Add some W/I in the mix, and that should get it done. It may take a bit more tuning also. You can also expect a faster decline in power when racing numerous times

What about Water injection?

This is a great mod. It will help with detonation, keeping the egts lower and aid with fueling. Timing will go up, and the combustion chamber gets cleaned. Might be used inplace of a big FMIC. I havent experienced 300whp without a cooler though

Tuning Questions:


Are the boost numbers listed needed and are they spiked or holding?

A normal 300whp tune, I use 20 psi holding for awhile falling to 16. That should get it done. For more wtrq I spike it to 22 and falling to 16. You can get these numbers with lower boost, but it will take more tuning for sure. Try some things on the dyno and track and see what works best for you.

Can 20psi be held to redline?

Yes, but I havent seen that much of a difference on the dyno to go through the hassel.

Can this be done on pump gas?

Check the mod lits, you see 94 octane on there right? Can it be done with lower octane? Maybe. Anything less than 93, I would use water/alchy injection to be on the safe side. I always recommend atleast 93 to my customers. Cali guys....well you get nice weather so stop beatchin

What fuel pressure should I use?

That needs to be proven on a wideband. No way to say for sure, with the different mods out there. I would start with 50psi with the vacuum line off. Then raise or lower from there

What about EGTs?

Oh boy not this again. If u follow the how 2, you wont have a problem. Street, dyno and track tested. Raising the timing along with a nice a/f ratio will keep the egts in check

What about a/f ratio?

Depends on the gas and persons choice. In an ideal sitiuation with all the tuning crap available.. I would like to see 12.4 across the board and falling to 11.8 at around 5600 to redline. Now that doesnt mean 12s are bad... It just, Thats what ideal is to me.



How do the vacuum lines get set up?

I always use the green line. I like the added torque. I run the pink line to the TB vacuum port, block the blue line and everything else. I dont use the soleniods at all. Also no BLEED is needed.



Misc questions

Will these mods void my warranty?

If you need to aske this question, you need to sell the car and move to greenland

Is this setup good for daily driving?

YES!! Thats the whole point, a 300whp daily driver.

How much does this setup cost?

Depends on the brands and if you bought the stuff new or not. So i wont ball park it

What is the expected track times with this setup?

Depends on driver, track prep and temp, and weight of the car. We all know what das has done, so aim for the 11s



Biggest question of them all:

IS THIS SETUP REALLY SAFE??

We have numerous cars that have thousands of miles with similar setups. not one person to my knowledge has had a problem. now things happen, and that should be taken into condsideration when modding your vehicle. Take it to someone who knows the SRT, not just cars. People make that mistake alot, and it hurst the wallet. Mod your car at your own risk. Running 300whp and higher boost will put alot of strain on the stock turbo. The life will be shortened. how long is unknown. We have cars with 50k miles at 20+psi , but that doesnt mean yours will last that long.

[Aaronneon]

wow Im famous

[Broken5hift]

wow Im famous

your shit works and its done smartly. nuff said there.

[hozay09]

I won't say how many cars have been to our shop with problems due to following that path. People really need to be careful when following something like that. Every car runs different, unfortunately people don't understand that.

[Broken5hift]

I won't say how many cars have been to our shop with problems due to following that path. People really need to be careful when following something like that. Every car runs different, unfortunately people don't understand that.

you mean people F'ing up doing their own work right

[Aaronneon]

I won't say how many cars have been to our shop with problems due to following that path. People really need to be careful when following something like that. Every car runs different, unfortunately people don't understand that.


Please. Dont get me started on you guys. How many cars could you possibly have with a one car bay. I mean lets keep it real. You guys have had plenty of problems with your own car


It says right in the thread how to do it and every car is different. If people cant follow it, its not my fault. It is a basic how 2, not very difficult at all

[Aaronneon]

Besides the fact after the package is done, it will be a bolt on affair with full how 2 down to the vacuum setup

[Aaronneon]

you mean people F'ing up doing their own work right


basically. If anything, Hozay should be happy as it brings him business :rofl:

[Broken5hift]

lets keep this without the attacks guys. N2MB is a phenominal bunch of guys and jay has gone way out of his way for the club and other owners.

aarons set up works great if done properly. unfortunitly people are idiots but my friends srt is a living testimate to how, if done right, to create a monster.

[hozay09]

Please. Dont get me started on you guys. How many cars could you possibly have with a one car bay. I mean lets keep it real. You guys have had plenty of problems with your own car


It says right in the thread how to do it and every car is different. If people cant follow it, its not my fault. It is a basic how 2, not very difficult at all

Ouch. Sounds like you took offense to what I said. I didn't mean to disrespect you Aaron. I know your work. I was referring to the plan. I have alot of kids that fuck it up and we have to fix the problems. In no way did I mean to disrespect you or your knowledge.

As far as having a one car bay, i'm sorry that we didn't have the opportunity to say "hey lets open a muli car garage tomorrow!" We started from the ground up as I'm sure many companies have as well. We work on cars almost everyday and have done alot of work, even with just one garage. Sorry that we dont have the luxury to open a huge facility right from the start.

Plenty of problems with my car? I had a tuning issue that involved turbotrix and have since brought my car back to stock to help out with my family. My car was originally worked on by other clowns that didn't know what they were doing and unfortunately I didn't have N2MB back then. Again, I didn't post what I said to reflect you.

[Broken5hift]

zing @ revitup

[kenskiv]

Cool...

Come on guys let keep it respectable on this forum...
Thanks for Clearing that up Hozay...:thumb:

[Broken5hift]

if only we could get hozay and aaron to team up for a WWE title.

[Aaronneon]

Ouch. Sounds like you took offense to what I said. I didn't mean to disrespect you Aaron. I know your work. I was referring to the plan. I have alot of kids that fuck it up and we have to fix the problems. In no way did I mean to disrespect you or your knowledge.

As far as having a one car bay, i'm sorry that we didn't have the opportunity to say "hey lets open a muli car garage tomorrow!" We started from the ground up as I'm sure many companies have as well. We work on cars almost everyday and have done alot of work, even with just one garage. Sorry that we dont have the luxury to open a huge facility right from the start.

Plenty of problems with my car? I had a tuning issue that involved turbotrix and have since brought my car back to stock to help out with my family. My car was originally worked on by other clowns that didn't know what they were doing and unfortunately I didn't have N2MB back then. Again, I didn't post what I said to reflect you.



I love you man, you know that. Dont forget I helped you sell your turbo kit. Im your buddy :thumb:

Im sorry, I get attacked so much for some reason, that I auto. ASSume that that what this was. For some reason vendors like to make me look like the bad guy. I was hoping I wasnt getting that from you.

Dont forget I worked my way up too man. I have to spend 5 hours a day fishing through pms and emails, besides making orders and handling the business parts. Then add the mechanical work and tunes, and Im one stressed mofo.

[kenskiv]

if only we could get hozay and aaron to team up for a WWE title.


But who would challenge them...*hint* :banned:

[Aaronneon]

if only we could get hozay and aaron to team up for a WWE title.



Hell, all we would have to do is annouce we were joining forces and they would just hand us the belt

[punkrokdood]

I love you man, you know that. Dont forget I helped you sell your turbo kit. Im your buddy :thumb:

Im sorry, I get attacked so much for some reason, that I auto. ASSume that that what this was. For some reason vendors like to make me look like the bad guy. I was hoping I wasnt getting that from you.

Dont forget I worked my way up too man. I have to spend 5 hours a day fishing through pms and emails, besides making orders and handling the business parts. Then add the mechanical work and tunes, and Im one stressed mofo.
don't worry about it... things are a bit different over here :thumb:

[Aaronneon]

don't worry about it... things are a bit different over here :thumb:

I hope so. Thats why I am here.

[hozay09]

Thanks for responding Aaron. I know it's tough to tell how or what people are saying on a forum without hearing a voice or facial expression. You of all people know where we came :thumb:

I tried the "tag team" once. Didn't work out so I went solo. You may remember me from back in the day. I'm on the right.

http://www.awcable.com/images/wrestling_classic/tag_team/hart_foundation.jpg

[Broken5hift]

Thanks for responding Aaron. I know it's tough to tell how or what people are saying on a forum without hearing a voice or facial expression. You of all people know where we came :thumb:

I tried the "tag team" once. Didn't work out so I went solo. You may remember me from back in the day. I'm on the right.

http://www.awcable.com/images/wrestling_classic/tag_team/hart_foundation.jpg

so thats why your always wearing spandex. makes sense

[Aaronneon]

so thats why your always wearing spandex. makes sense

hahahaha . Thanks alot ass. I just spit pop on my keyboard. now my girl will think im looking at porn again [sticky keyboard]

[svt2srt4]

i followed the 300whp guide to the detail, my car is making big power on stock turbo and all the afr's are well within the safe level, the one thing he doesn't mention which is a given is to properly monitor all vitals..afr's/oil pressure/egt's....but i'm sure he assumes that you will do so without saying because it's common sense..if you don't like his guide then don't do it but to speculate its dangerous or mickey mouse is stupid ,100's if not close to a thousand srt-4 owners have followed that guide and reached success and their cars are just fine...

[spools]

lol this guy is funny... i followed this path, i made 310 hp... i run this shit out of my car, and guess what, its reliable as fuck lol.. just hit 50K on themiles, so ya, id say its doin good... ok im done..

[R2SWIFT]

FMIC
I prefer AGPs or PSI-FI

3 inch exhaust
Any full turbo back

map clamp [emanage-safc] - 4.0-4.2 volts clamping
Dasmopar clamp, ED emanage, or anyones SAFC. Stage 2 cars should clamp at 3.2-3.5 volts

return line kit
Aaronneons ....duuhh

WGA@ 20-22 psi
AGP!

Plugs gapped @ .30-.32
Stock plugs work the best for me

94-110 octane
Sunoco

No boost leaks
Check and double check!! Zip tie ALL vacuum lines

12.5 MAX a/f ratio. This is the highest I will allow. I keep the cars around 11.5-12.5[max]

Stage 1 or 2 injectors will work perfect
With a return line, the stage 1 injectors will be more than enough fuel that the stock turbo will use. No 750ccs newbs.

Stage 0-2 PCM
There is no need for stage 2. If you have it already, I would sell it. If not, then it can still be done.


= 300+whp everytime. I think theres like 11-12 guys here in Ohio alone that are at that mark.

A 60mm TB at this point will help with the midrange, dont expect peak power to raise much. The same with a ported intake manifold. Doing headwork or an aftermarket intake manifold will get you more peak power. W/I is a great idea to help keep the car safe. It is not needed but does help. I have no experience with cams with a 300whp stock turbo car, but that is coming.

Nickspi`s car holds the record for most power so far... 329whp. We are adding a ported TB, exhaust manifold and turbo to raise that number soon. Then we will play with cams. He also doesnt have a fuel computer, so we will get one of those on.


Very simple. NO NEED!!! to ask questions. Buy the mods listed above. Make sure you use good gas. Make sure there are no boost leaks. Make sure the plugs are gapped like listed above. Make sure you have a good a/f ratio. The car will last if you keep up with maintence and watch the A/F ratio.


Please make this a sticky. I have backed this up with over 10 cars. Dasmopar and Vector have with numerous cars also. It will save me from answering the same questions over and over again.


do you have price list ?

[punkrokdood]

do you have price list ?
here's an estimate
FMIC $300- $600 depending on what you get

3 inch exhaust $200 for cutout and stock cat-back, all the way up to $1100 for certain turbo-backs

map clamp [emanage-safc] - 4.0-4.2 volts clamping
Stage 2 cars should clamp at 3.2-3.5 volts $2 to make your own mapclamp all the way up to $2000 for a standalone

return line kit $200-ish to make your own with quality parts, $350ish for a good kit


WGA@ 20-22 psi $3 for a spring mod, up to $200 for a wga


Plugs gapped @ .30-.32 $1 for a plug gapper


94-110 octane whatever they charge per gallon
Sunoco

No boost leaks
Check and double check!! Zip tie ALL vacuum lines $5 on zip ties, $10-$30 on a boost leak checker

so you're looking at about $750 to almost $4000 depending on what exactly you use

[blackbird]

If you're just starting out on your path to modification I'd highly recommend investing in a good wideband A/F gauge and a scan gauge or scan tool first before you start throwing a lot of upgrades at the car. That way you can watch and see how everything is working stock and then have a baseline to go off of when you start modifying and adding performance parts.

[kenskiv]

If you're just starting out on your path to modification I'd highly recommend investing in a good wideband A/F gauge and a scan gauge or scan tool first before you start throwing a lot of upgrades at the car. That way you can watch and see how everything is working stock and then have a baseline to go off of when you start modifying and adding performance parts.

^^^ :werd: