fuel pump noise I dont remember hearing before...

[Eulers Ghost]

On the stage 3 pump, does it make a high pitched whirring noise when you are low on fuel? I dont remember it making that noise before, but whenever my tank gets below a quarter tank i hear this faint noise coming from what I suspect is the fuel pump. It does go away after I put in some lucas and gas in the tank, but I dont know if its the increase in the volume of fuel or the lucas that is making the difference.

Is this normal for the stage 3 pumps and I just never noticed it before, or is there yet another part I am going to have to replace on this?

Thanks.

[blackbird]

A lot of the Walbro's will make that sound and many times it's more common when the tank is lower and it sucks up air. A lot of the tanks and pump module assemblies are designed to have the pick-up sit in a tray area that is supposed to hold a small amount of fuel better and not slosh around in the tank with the rest of it when it gets low.

It's possible the bigger pump is sucking that dry under acceleration/cornering and also some pumps are just noisy. The fuel pump in my Citation X-11 has been whining for something like 5 or 6 years now. On the other hand it could be a sign that the pump is on the way out. I've heard of more than a couple S3 pumps taking a dump. I thought they were a 180 LPH pump and are more than likely made by Walbro like a lot of the OEM Chrysler pumps (as well as other manufacturers).

The best thing is to keep an eye on your wideband if you have one and watch for it suddenly showing leaner than normal or to get a fuel pressure gauge and keep an eye on what it's doing. Then again if you're worried as a preventative maintenance step you could drop in an aftermarket high-pressure 255 LPH pump. It should work the same and you probably won't be any richer (one variable might be how the on-demand regulation at the fuel rail works, but I know some S3 people have done this already and I've never heard of a problem). They only go for around $100 and aren't too difficult to change.

[Eulers Ghost]

thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I dont have a wideband at the moment :( Its a mod that I gotta put on the back burner for now due to batty old lady making me get a muffler. Well I want it to because I'm sick of the drone in the car, but thats cash I gotta outlay plus I might need a few other odds and ends that would eat the budget I have for that.

Thanks for the advice though. Like I said its really faint and when the tank is full I cant hear it at all, so I suspect you are right its getting some air or something. I've had to run the tank really low so that when I put race fuel in it holds HOM, but I think i'll spend the extra 12 bucks for 2 more gallons of 104 so I can mix it in when there is more in the tank and run it down a 2nd time before putting the race fuel in.

Meanwhile, I'll start budgeting for a 255 pump so I can be done with this mess and have some peace of mind.

[blackbird]

If you really want to hear what it sounds like (as well as your exhaust) pop the back seats, floor carpet in the trunk, and the spare tire and go for a drive. Even on a stock car it will make a very loud and interesting whooshing sounds from the exhaust at WOT. And you can also really hear the pump better that way.

[blackbird]

Another thing you can do is connect a manual pressure gauge to the fuel rail. Most of the S3 rails should have a Schrader valve for this. You can usually rent a pressure gauge from some auto part chain stores or buy one for about $25-30. See what the pressure is doing at idle, and if it's long enough, put it out the back side of the hood and have a passenger watch and see what it is doing under acceleration/WOT. If you suspect it might be going out you can also keep an eye on your spark plugs for signs of running lean.

http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html
http://www.motocross.com/motoprof/moto/mcycle/plug2/plug2.htm
http://www.verrill.com/moto/sellingguide/sparkplugs/plugcolorchart.htm
http://www.triumphspitfire.nl/plugs.html
http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark2.asp

Of note, running lean is usually related to running hot/overheating. Most of the plug picture/charts like above out on the internet aren't that great, but it can give you an idea of what to watch for.

[Eulers Ghost]

hmmm those are some good guides. thanks!

Ive had the S3 in now for close to 7k miles so it might not hurt to change my plugs again (I put in the cooler NGK's when I had S3 put in).

I'll see what I can do about getting a fuel pressure gauge with something so that I can see it while driving under load.

[Eulers Ghost]

while im thinking of it, I know this has been beaten to death, but im running the NGK2315's with my S3 on recommendations from people, but I'm not sure if I need to. I think hozay said the 4306's are more than adequate for the car.

Also, is there a different weight/grade oil you suggest for the oil change? I've got to do one and I wasn't sure if I should use whats suggested in the manual or go to a different weight/grade.


opinions?

[blackbird]

The NGK 2315's should be the Iridium IX plugs. If so, they seem to work well for a lot of people but I usually prefer a basic copper plug changed out a little more often. The iridium plugs on the market have a very tough iridium center electrode but the ground electrode (the one over the top) is usually regular metal and will still wear out over time. So while they might not need changed every 5-10k miles like a cooper plug, the service life in a turbo engine is still not going to be as long as a naturally aspirated engine (maybe 25-30k miles depending on plug, but you should be checking them every so often anyways).

Of the choice for copper plugs we essentially only have two right now; Champion and NGK. For a stock turbo car I like the Champions since they last longer and have less of a problem than the NGK 4306's with missing in my experience (especially on S2 cars). You have the stock Champion RE14MCC5 (470) plug but I like the Hemi V8 application RE14MCC4 (570) plug which is the same heat range but is designed to be gapped closer.

For S3 with its higher cylinder pressure the Champion's have historically not been a very strong plug. If we had access to one I'd be running a basic copper Autolite in the SRT-4. So with that sad, I'd try the copper NGK 4306's if you do change out your iridium's and are looking for something else.


On the subject of oil I've posted in countless threads on the other site but can't remember any over here for a while. :lol: It all depends on your climate and how you drive. The factory recommended 5w-30 is good for the majority of climates but there are some oils that might offer better protection for where you live. You can also ask the service department at your dealer but finding someone who actually knows anything might be more work than doing some research on it yourself.

In general I personally like running Mobil's commecial/industrial Delvac 1 Synthetic (which is a 5w-40) on my turbo cars when I was in California. It was being sold under their Mobil 1 brand as the older "Truck and SUV" in cheap jugs at Wal-Mart but they discontinued that and replaced it with a 5w-30 Truck and SUV. The new "Turbo Diesel Truck" formulation should be the same as Delvac 1 and the old Truck and SUV but I'm not sure on availability or pricing since I moved just before it was supposed to hit store shelves on the west coast. It's a thicker oil when cold than most 5w-30's so if you live in a cool climate M1 0w-40 is a good choice.

The best bet is to head over to the oil forums and do some research for yourself.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

They've got a lot of the tech data as well as independent testing and analysis of various oils. There's a lot of good synthetics out there so you might decide to go with M1, "German" Castrol 0w-30, or even a Wal-Mart SuperTech brand synthetic (which depending on which one you get isn't a bad oil for the price if you change it a lot).

[Eulers Ghost]

good to know!! thanks!!

I change my oil religiously every 3k, sometimes less, but i'll do the search and figure it out.

[blackbird]

If you're smart enough to run a synthetic and you do some research you'll know that you don't need to change it every 3k miles unless you were worried about warranty (and if it were me I'd claim the 5k-mile service schedule if the dealer ever asked and there was a potential oil related warranty problem). But since you have S3 you apparently aren't too concerned about the factory warranty so I'd have no problem running it longer. :thumb:

The best bet is to find a synthetic with an appropriate viscosity that's a good compromise of value with a good, proven track record of independent testing, then run it for 3-5k miles and have an oil analysis done. It'll cost about $20 (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) but you'll get a report back that tells you how well the oil and filter is performing, if it's safe for continued use, and also it will tell you of any internal engine problems that might start creeping up (as an example, high levels of copper due to a bearing going out before you even hear it or see metal shaving in the oil).

I'd bet that if you do a lot of hard driving but it's mostly on the street, as long as you use a good filter the test report will come back at 3-5k miles saying safe for continued use. Keep testing at the recommended interval and once you find out about how far you can safely go on the oil you can dial back the testing if you want.

Remember the key word is "safe". We're not talking about some grey area of oil protection safety. Some will argue that you should just change it at 3k-miles because it's cheap protection, but I usually ask why do that if it's safe to run longer and you're getting the same protection? That and the oil will still be lubricating the same, just that as it ages the additive package is what gets used up and the filter reaches a limit to what it and the oil can hold. And the testing method will show this as well as offer the advantage of getting an "inside look" at your engine that a 3k-mile or even 1k-mile oil change can't.

Without doing testing another option that should be safe is to run synthetic and a good filter (which again you'll want to research but M1, K&N, Purolator PureOne and a few others are good choices depending on what you're looking for) and change the filter at 3k-miles with a top up of synthetic and change both the oil and filter at 6k miles.

[Eulers Ghost]

sounds like a plan. with the weather getting cooler I probably want to change everything out anyway. I had a warranty which is why i had the every 3k done, but since the episode of BS regarding my shift fork, i've accepted I have no warranty anymore so fuck them.

I just want to change everything out completely so that I know everything is fresh, and that way I can get a reliable oil analysis done and see what's going on.

Thanks for the help!

[svt2srt4]

thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I dont have a wideband at the moment :( Its a mod that I gotta put on the back burner for now due to batty old lady making me get a muffler. Well I want it to because I'm sick of the drone in the car, but thats cash I gotta outlay plus I might need a few other odds and ends that would eat the budget I have for that.

Thanks for the advice though. Like I said its really faint and when the tank is full I cant hear it at all, so I suspect you are right its getting some air or something. I've had to run the tank really low so that when I put race fuel in it holds HOM, but I think i'll spend the extra 12 bucks for 2 more gallons of 104 so I can mix it in when there is more in the tank and run it down a 2nd time before putting the race fuel in.

Meanwhile, I'll start budgeting for a 255 pump so I can be done with this mess and have some peace of mind.
holy shit, all the mods you have done to your car and no wideband?...i don't care if you go stage kits or aftermarket bolt-ons you need a wideband;part of building a good fast car is making sure the vitals of your engine are properly monitored at all times....i didn't even start my buildup untill making sure i had afr's/oil pressure/egt's all monitored:thumb:

[hozay09]

Skipping past all the technical terms.... Like blackbird said early, your pump is about to crap out. Order a walbro pump ASAP.

yes, this is an ongoing, common issue.

[Thirteens420k]

I got a stock pump making the same noise, but mine is really loud. It whines if i have the car off and just turn the key to the on position to prime the injectors. I have the ptp 75psi fpr mod but it didn't do it(or i didn't notice it) for about 3 months. Then i noticed it one day. I heard a whining coming from somewhere. I walked around the car and sure enough it was coming from the rear passenger side tire area. I knew it was the pump right away making the noise. It's been making the noise now for about 2-3 months. I put the new o-ring in it and it still whined the same. I even hooked up my buddies wideband on it and it shows i have perfect fuel at idle and throughout my rpm range. I don't know whats going on with it.

[Eulers Ghost]

holy shit, all the mods you have done to your car and no wideband?...i don't care if you go stage kits or aftermarket bolt-ons you need a wideband;part of building a good fast car is making sure the vitals of your engine are properly monitored at all times....i didn't even start my buildup untill making sure i had afr's/oil pressure/egt's all monitored:thumb:

Hmmm... that was one of the reasons I went with the stage kits so I didnt have to worry about that.

Ugh, more money that I really cant shell out right now :(

Skipping past all the technical terms.... Like blackbird said early, your pump is about to crap out. Order a walbro pump ASAP.

yes, this is an ongoing, common issue.

I'm pointing and clicking today. So much for getting quieter. This is much more important.

EDIT - got a walbro part number?

[Eulers Ghost]

saw this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180025529567&fromMakeTrack=true

after doing some searches on various forums, this *seems* like its the right 255 high pressure pump with kit. Can someone verify before I point and click?

EDIT - hmmm they claim walbro pumps have no warranty, but at another site they said they have a 1 year warranty. Making me a little skittish there.

EDIT 2 - GCA761 is another part number I found on another site that seems to know what they are doing when it comes to pump replacement.

[punkrokdood]

saw this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180025529567&fromMakeTrack=true

after doing some searches on various forums, this *seems* like its the right 255 high pressure pump with kit. Can someone verify before I point and click?

EDIT - hmmm they claim walbro pumps have no warranty, but at another site they said they have a 1 year warranty. Making me a little skittish there.

EDIT 2 - GCA761 is another part number I found on another site that seems to know what they are doing when it comes to pump replacement.
the part number that is on my walbro 255 pump box is GCA761-2

[Eulers Ghost]

thanks for the confirmation. Im going to order from the place in edit 2 and spend the extra 20 bucks to make sure its the right one.

[Eulers Ghost]

just ordered a new pump with kit. Thanks for your help guys. I'll just take it easy on the driving and stay out of boost until it arrives.

[hozay09]

The link you provided from full throttle was the right one. We've done plenty business with them.

[Eulers Ghost]

crap! i already ordered my pump elsewhere :'(