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View Full Version : Dyno'ed the car, not ideal conditions but..


djfourmoney
03-29-2019, 03:42 AM
I just wanted to see where the car ran, not really interested in peak numbers. It runs rich through most of the powerband (low 11's) and 12:1 starting around 5600rpm.

There is a Map Clamp on the car but its coming off.

Now I dyno'ed with no incoming air in front of the car/intercooler and that may have sapped some power, according to Nemo. But then the bullshiet started and I deleted the post on the other forums. Not wanting a repeat of that, I wanted to get your thoughts here.

If you look at the end of the graph it seems to be knocking, althought not audiable.

It spikes 19psi and holds to 16-17psi at redline.

Again I repeat, no incoming air into the car or intercooler, the car was facing a closed garage door. Not ideal, but I wanted to mainly see if the car was running lean, its not, well not until 5600 or so.

I plan on installing the Super AFC Neo I picked up at the Apex'i Garage Sale 2 weeks ago. If I need to up the pressure, I can use the 75psi FPR from my Stage 3R kit for the time being. I also wanted to add water injection, so we'll see, but I'm 90% sure I will have a kit overnighted to me in time to install on Friday.

I'm also going to pick up a Car Chip EX datalogger, so I don't have to have a scanner unit, PDA or Laptop in the car at all times. I can unplug it and upload the data into my laptop for viewing.

So without further delay -

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/djfourmoney/1stRun-1.jpg

Lunchbox, Garrett, feel free to comment

Mods are -

S1, Kinetics WG, FBM Stage 3, MPx 3" o2, Thermal R&D TBE with Cat

To be installed tomorrow -

MSD DIS-2 and Super AFC Neo

On Friday -

Cooling Mist Trunk Mount W/I maybe with Progressive Controller, we'll see and tuning by Matan of AWD Performance.

So this setup is not static, I just wanted to see if you guys though if there was any problems. The knock might be caused by an overtight knock sensor. I spoke with John@PTP earlier in the day and he said there was a TSB that covered it. I wouldn't have thought of it, unless this didn't happen -

The last time I ran at LACR on street tires and the times I went since my car came back from FBM (no leaks, no vaccum problems), its been running right around 14.1-14.2@99-100mph. A time or two the traps fell down to 96mph. Some of that was messing around with shift points, especially the 3-4 shift, but shifting the same resulted in 99-100 on other passes (strange) also I always went 79-80mph in the right lane and about 76mph in the lleft lane. For those that have run LACR before, knows there's a series of small bumps in the left lane. I got mild wheel hop and then it would chatter over those bumps. I didnt think the PCM is that quick to pull timing, however those bumps are around the 60-100ft mark and that's plenty of time for the PCM to adjust, kill timing and then bring it back up before the end of the strip. I may be off base here, but there has to be another reasonable answer to this and its not the driver mod...

Input welcome, let's keep it clean...

blackbird
03-29-2019, 05:18 AM
With a stock-based turbo running around 12:1 AFR is pretty lean and I'd bet the EGT's are getting up there, so it is possible you might be getting knock. And if those air/fuel numbers were taken while on a inertia dyno you're going to be even leaner out on the street due to loading differences. I'm not a big fan of cranking the boost up to max on a bone stock fuel system.

If you haven't used a scan tool or scan gauge to watch timing I'd take a look into that first rather than guessing that it looks like timing is getting pulled due to knock. And if you do have knock you'll then need to address what's causing it. You might want to do that before installing the piggyback (since you shouldn't be pulling any fuel with your current setup and modifications up at the top end where the problem is occurring).

Also I did a quick check to verify and you're probably going to want to look into a different logging solution. The CarChip E/X can only sample every 5 seconds (at fastest rate) which is way too slow to provide any meaningful information.

djfourmoney
03-29-2019, 11:36 AM
With a stock-based turbo running around 12:1 AFR is pretty lean and I'd bet the EGT's are getting up there, so it is possible you might be getting knock. And if those air/fuel numbers were taken while on a inertia dyno you're going to be even leaner out on the street due to loading differences. I'm not a big fan of cranking the boost up to max on a bone stock fuel system.

If you haven't used a scan tool or scan gauge to watch timing I'd take a look into that first rather than guessing that it looks like timing is getting pulled due to knock. And if you do have knock you'll then need to address what's causing it. You might want to do that before installing the piggyback (since you shouldn't be pulling any fuel with your current setup and modifications up at the top end where the problem is occurring).

Also I did a quick check to verify and you're probably going to want to look into a different logging solution. The CarChip E/X can only sample every 5 seconds (at fastest rate) which is way too slow to provide any meaningful information.

So a Car Chip is too slow then?

I need something, now the problems is getting a cable which MIGHT not be an issue, but I really wanted to run the car this weekend (IDRC).

I have to work tomorrow, so this is basically my last chance sort this out (today).

I know without some better information it will be harder to diagnose the problem.

S1 is considered bone stock ('03)? I have the whole S3R fuel system sitting right here. I was just hoping I did'nt't have to spend a ton to get power out of the current config. If I put the 75psi FPR in, that would bump rail pressure up beyond stock levels.

I ran the car on pump as I have never been able to hear any knocking, but the PCM would be way ahead of me if it did.

I found a somewhat local source for OBD-2 scanning software. As much as I didn't want to use my laptop for such things, I guess its unavoidable.

punkrokdood
03-29-2019, 02:30 PM
So a Car Chip is too slow then?

I need something, now the problems is getting a cable which MIGHT not be an issue, but I really wanted to run the car this weekend (IDRC).

I have to work tomorrow, so this is basically my last chance sort this out (today).

I know without some better information it will be harder to diagnose the problem.

S1 is considered bone stock ('03)? I have the whole S3R fuel system sitting right here. I was just hoping I did'nt't have to spend a ton to get power out of the current config. If I put the 75psi FPR in, that would bump rail pressure up beyond stock levels.

I ran the car on pump as I have never been able to hear any knocking, but the PCM would be way ahead of me if it did.

I found a somewhat local source for OBD-2 scanning software. As much as I didn't want to use my laptop for such things, I guess its unavoidable.
the laptop ones are nice... its what i'll be using:thumb:

they make ones that work with Palm OS as well if you're interested

djfourmoney
03-29-2019, 07:58 PM
Yeah but I have a Laptop not a PDA....

Here's the company Im going to pick up a cable from -

http://www.aldlcable.com/

lunchbox660
03-29-2019, 10:55 PM
based off of what you describe and your dyno sheet, it is possible that the car may be getting some knock yes, and like eric (blackbird) said, with a stock turbo and that lean of condition on pump gas, it CAN and likely IS causing the knock and pulling timing. this is just a guess, i could be very wrong, but your dyno sheet looks very choppy. i am guessing you are still on the stock plug wires and your plugs are not properly gapped, because many many many times a poor dyno result or a choppy one like yours ends up being ignition related. ive been thru 5 sets of plug wires and PROVEN this case numerous times, and anybody who has ever dynoed with different plug gaps will be able to tell you the real difference that makes as well.

your mods list looks pretty solid for the numbers youve got there is some good potential there for sure. your air fuel ratio isnt lean at all until the end of the run, which your car is dying off anyways by then (they all do, its not just yours) so i would just shift earlier if i was you since you are already looking at doing a few other mods. dont get wrapped up in your AFR just yet until you are ready to go re-tune after your new mods are installed. you are solid in the 11's all the way to 5500 rpms where your HP drops off anyway. almost all stock turbo srts drop off at about the same point. its normal. and even after that 5500 range stil you are in the very low 12s. what you can do is just make sure to always use the good gas, and if you want some extra protection, use NOS brand octane booster in the silver and black can. it works great and is relatively cheap. ive used it and have been able to prove that it works. eric can back me up on that as well since he was the one holding the scan tool when we tested it out. the MMT will build up on your plugs and sensors though, so only use it if you INSIST on pushing your car to that limit constantly.

once your water injection goes on, basically your lean problem is solved. the water/meth will both cool and enrich your mixture enough to give you your timing back as well as keep the car in safer AFRs. of course, you already know that cus thats prolly why you bought it, right?

as far as the lack of fresh air on the IC yes, it makes a HUGE HUGE difference, so DO take that into consideration. im sure after you dynoed the car and then took it for a drive the new tune prolly felt pretty damn good to you right? the fresh air of the highway can easily give you a good boost in IC efficiency and will DEFINITLEY increase your power.

for datalogging, if you must have laptop playability, i dont know what to tell you, but if you want a really nice alternative, might i suggest a scan gauge from aero force technology? i have one and it is incredible! it looks very nice in the car, is compact, has a relatively fast read/display rate, cost effective, and reads all the important parameters you need to know....i have one and i would give up my left nut before i give up this gauge...it can record and playback on the gauge, so if you want to re-cap your logging session, you can just keep playing it back till you learn how to read it. its the best couple hundred bucks i have EVER spent. hands down.

as far as using LACR as a place to judge your car, i wouldnt bother. that track has horrible prep and is high elevation with terrible air. i lost .5 seconds and about 5 mph going from fontana to LACR in the SAME week on the SAME tune. its just not a good place to tune a car and compare it to other users cars. its fun to go there and race, but dont sweat what your timeslip reads. i went there with brad (white srt with big turbo) and he was on slicks and normally runs retarded hard and even HE was complaining with me that night. ive got videos of it on here somewhere...look for "LACR" among my thread titles, youll see it. along with all my weak ass runs.


i think that about covers everything that i was thinking....PM me if you have specific questions or if you ask them here at least PM me to direct me back to this thread.

joe

lunchbox660
03-29-2019, 10:57 PM
by the way, last time i check, the read rate of the scan gauge is 6 times per second for two parameters at a time. its plenty fast for in cabin viewing. if you need higher resolution than that they you are going to probably have to look into EMS because the bus on the SRTs OBD port cannot support much higher data rates than this from the factory.

djfourmoney
04-01-2019, 09:51 PM
I picked up my OBD-2 to USB device from http://www.aldlcable.com/

I didn't connect it during the runs while Matan tuned my Super AFC Neo.

We started with similar numbers to the graph above but he uses a Dynopak for his tuning.

Final numbers are 247/300ft of torque, but I have reason to believe the Dynopaks read a bit low. It doesn' matter, the car was pulling timing with a 19psi spike.

I have the graphs but they are kinda hard to understand and I don't wanna fill this thread up with a bunch of chatter about how different dynos and how they read input taken from a car.

I did observe 113 degree inlet temps via the OBD-2 software I used (Scantool) with 2 high speed floor blowers during the dyno pulls and 26 degrees of total timing.

After a few WOT pulls down the freeway, it was 4am Saturday morning and I wanted to get in line for the IDRC's last event at LACR. I knew turnout would be pretty good and the line LONG. So I went home, picked up what I need and removed a few things I didn't need.

I lost my cellphone in the process and fear its been lost for good. So I wasn't able to share my results with anybody until I got home.

My previous personal best with the car in the condition it was in before diagonosing the timing issue with 19psi of boost, was -

14.138@100.2 on street tires
13.479@100.6 on 23x7.5x15 M&H Slicks

I removed the seats and spare tire this time, but the weather conditions were about the same as my 13.47 pass the weekend before. The weight reduction would be worth about a tenth overall, but not add very much to my trap speed problems.

Well -

First pass of the day was interesting. When I did my burnout and stagged, the starter deemed my car too low and was sent back to tech. The guy that normally handles tech for the track and tech's my car everytime at LACR was puzzled, wrote - "Ok Bud" on the window and I got back in line to make my first pass. So the car was up to operating temp and was basically hot by that time, but that didn't seem to matter much...

13.297@102.75

With no other changes, I got back in line. Had the car off most of the time while waiting and did

13.206@103.67

The guy that tuned my car, Matan of AWD Performance and Tuning (661-406-8931) lives near LACR and came out to the event. While he was there, he offered to make an adjustment to my Super AFC for the higher altitude up at LACR compared to sea level. Did it work?

You be the judge...

All these runs were made during brackets (Super Comp) and no 1/8th mile or 60ft information was available. I was getting setup in the water box by John@M&H Tires who was there measuring tire temps with some of the competitors using M&H tires

First run, opponent redlighted

13.47@104+ (13.15 dial-in)

Adjusted dial-in to 13.00

Got a better burnout (thanks John!) and dropped tire pressure to 16psi cold

13.03@104.9

On Video and Witnesses are Matan and Quentin of AWD and John@M&H Tire

Last run was in a loosing effort, but still

13.17@104+

I really wanted to run a 12 and felt I could have with the DIS-2 installed to set my launch RPM instead of just kind of reving it up to whatever, I brought it up to around 4-5K rpm on all runs, but its very unscienfic. I also planned on running water injection that day, but the Cooling Mist trunk kit didn't come with a tap and I didn't find that out until it was too late to do anything about it.

I seriously considerd going up to Sacramento Raceway for the CMI race today but I lost my cellphone and I didn't get any sleep the day before, so it was wise I didn't go afterall.

So 12's wil have to wait until maybe Wed at LACR or Saturday at Fontana.

Thanks for the input...

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