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SRTFan12009
06-30-2019, 09:42 PM
Can someone explain to me how I can retard my ignition timing? What I would need to do? All though this next question does not belong in this section i will ask it anyway. Does anyone know what the stock clutch is rated at for h.p?

srtowner
07-01-2019, 11:15 AM
Adjustable cam gears.

Low-Speed
07-01-2019, 04:18 PM
Can someone explain to me how I can retard my ignition timing? What I would need to do? All though this next question does not belong in this section i will ask it anyway. Does anyone know what the stock clutch is rated at for h.p?

A DIS-2 MSD ignition box, AEM EMS, a Stage 1 or Stage 3 computer, richening the mixture with a FC by showing higher map signals, as this causes the computer to pull timing, etc.

No clutch should be rated for HP. All should be rated for torque, if properly done. Any clutch rated for HP, is done so assuming a given torque level, and operational range. The stock clutch is good for around 300 ft-lbs, but some will do better, some worse. Rating wise, it's probably about 265 to 285 ft-lbs.

blackbird
07-01-2019, 04:28 PM
Adjustable cam gears would allow you to alter the cam timing of when the valves open but would not change the ignition timing of when the computer fires the spark plugs. There is a camshaft position sensor driven off the end of the intake cam but it is primarily used so the computer can determine which of the two cylinder at the top of their stoke (1 or 4, or the 2 or 3) is at top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke and which one is at the top on the exhaust stroke. The actual igniting timing is calculated off the crankshaft position sensor which has many more teeth and offers a higher "resolution" to more accurately measure when ignition timing events occur.

Taking a look at your signature line I'll copy it below in case you change it and some looks at this thread in the future:
AGP 50 Trim C.B.B turbo, DTEC Fuel Kit w/ everything, E.D. FMIC, Ultimate 3" CAI, Intake Mani Extrude Honed, D.O. H20 injection, NS 3" DP with cutout, Cold Fusion Nitrous Wet kit, Crower Stage 2 Camshafts and Springs+Retainer Set,180 DG thermostat, 62mm TB

I pulled out the suspension stuff and things that shouldn't have an affect on tuning. Looking at the list I don't see cam gears and if you are running the aftermarket Crower cams "straight-up" on factory gears you might be missing out on quite a bit of power and not running optimally. Unfortunately the cams require adjustable gears, which in turn requires some dyno time to get them dialed in, but while it may be expensive it's definitely worth it.

Looking at the list I'm seeing a big turbo and nitrous kit so I'm guessing you want to reduce ignition timing to reduce or prevent knock. To get a better idea what setup you're running do you have a fuel return line kit with adjustable fuel pressure regulator, what injectors are you running, and what computer (stock of "Stage")? Also do you have a scan gauge or scan tool to monitor ignition timing and knock?

Assuming like most other big turbo SRT-4's that are running a piggyback on a stock/Stage computer that your ignition timing is pretty high (on top of trying to run nitrous which would be even riskier) and you want to bring it down some you don't have a lot of choices. Probably the best and easiest way would be to use one of the aftermarket ignition boxes like an MSD unit that is programmable and can reduce or pull timing based on variables such as boost pressure or rpm's.

If you can wait a month or two you might hold out and see what happens with SCT who are supposed to be releasing a flash unit and programming software that will allow you or a tuner to make changes to the calibration code in you stock computer (such as ignition and fueling changes). You could also install a complete stand-alone engine management system that would give you full control over spark and fuel but that is getting even more expensive and complicated.

If you wanted to try something really cheap and had the monitoring equipment to watch what the results are (wideband, scan tool/gauge, EGT, etc.) you could play around with tricking the coolant and intake air temp sensor output that the computer uses into making the computer think it is hotter than it really is which will usually reduce timing. Doing that though would be a lot more risky since you're already altering the MAP signal with the piggyback and the NGC engine controller is pretty smart and powerful at calculating things and you'd be changing quite a bit of the sensor readings that it relies on to get everything right.


And on the clutch question, all clutches and transaxle components are rated in torque capacity, not horsepower. The stock transaxle is rate by the manufacturer (New Venture/New Process/Magna) at 265 ft-lbs input torque but the stock clutch has held up well more than that. Mopar themselves say you can use it up to S3 power levels bu recommend the upgraded MP clutch. On you setup it's a matter of time until it goes. If you treat it gently and only run on street tires it might last a while. But if you turn up the boost or bolt on a set of sticky drag radials or slicks all it takes is for it to slip once and overheat and the organic friction material will glaze over and it will never hold the same again.

Low-Speed
07-01-2019, 05:40 PM
Adjustable cam gears would allow you to alter the cam timing of when the valves open but would not change the ignition timing of when the computer fires the spark plugs. There is a camshaft position sensor driven off the end of the intake cam but it is primarily used so the computer can determine which of the two cylinder at the top of their stoke (1 or 4, or the 2 or 3) is at top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke and which one is at the top on the exhaust stroke. The actual igniting timing is calculated off the crankshaft position sensor which has many more teeth and offers a higher "resolution" to more accurately measure when ignition timing events occur.

Taking a look at your signature line I'll copy it below in case you change it and some looks at this thread in the future:


I pulled out the suspension stuff and things that shouldn't have an affect on tuning. Looking at the list I don't see cam gears and if you are running the aftermarket Crower cams "straight-up" on factory gears you might be missing out on quite a bit of power and not running optimally. Unfortunately the cams require adjustable gears, which in turn requires some dyno time to get them dialed in, but while it may be expensive it's definitely worth it.

Looking at the list I'm seeing a big turbo and nitrous kit so I'm guessing you want to reduce ignition timing to reduce or prevent knock. To get a better idea what setup you're running do you have a fuel return line kit with adjustable fuel pressure regulator, what injectors are you running, and what computer (stock of "Stage")? Also do you have a scan gauge or scan tool to monitor ignition timing and knock?

Assuming like most other big turbo SRT-4's that are running a piggyback on a stock/Stage computer that your ignition timing is pretty high (on top of trying to run nitrous which would be even riskier) and you want to bring it down some you don't have a lot of choices. Probably the best and easiest way would be to use one of the aftermarket ignition boxes like an MSD unit that is programmable and can reduce or pull timing based on variables such as boost pressure or rpm's.

If you can wait a month or two you might hold out and see what happens with SCT who are supposed to be releasing a flash unit and programming software that will allow you or a tuner to make changes to the calibration code in you stock computer (such as ignition and fueling changes). You could also install a complete stand-alone engine management system that would give you full control over spark and fuel but that is getting even more expensive and complicated.

If you wanted to try something really cheap and had the monitoring equipment to watch what the results are (wideband, scan tool/gauge, EGT, etc.) you could play around with tricking the coolant and intake air temp sensor output that the computer uses into making the computer think it is hotter than it really is which will usually reduce timing. Doing that though would be a lot more risky since you're already altering the MAP signal with the piggyback and the NGC engine controller is pretty smart and powerful at calculating things and you'd be changing quite a bit of the sensor readings that it relies on to get everything right.


And on the clutch question, all clutches and transaxle components are rated in torque capacity, not horsepower. The stock transaxle is rate by the manufacturer (New Venture/New Process/Magna) at 265 ft-lbs input torque but the stock clutch has held up well more than that. Mopar themselves say you can use it up to S3 power levels bu recommend the upgraded MP clutch. On you setup it's a matter of time until it goes. If you treat it gently and only run on street tires it might last a while. But if you turn up the boost or bolt on a set of sticky drag radials or slicks all it takes is for it to slip once and overheat and the organic friction material will glaze over and it will never hold the same again.


Wow. I wasn't very far off! I forgot about the new SCT coming. but I think I hit most of the rest. Cool to see I'm learning a lot about these cars recently.

blackbird
07-02-2019, 12:04 AM
And while was typing, accidentally losing my post when the computer decided to go back a page, then re-typing you summed it up in a little bit shorter post. :lol:

Stage2BlackSRT4
07-03-2019, 02:24 PM
I might sujest using a return line to tune your fuel some so you don't get all the exra timing from the PCM not being able to 'see' all the boost because of the DTEC/map/pcm and then adding W/I to control the knock even more... just an idea, I've been keeping my eye on the develpment of that SCT

Low-Speed
07-04-2019, 04:02 PM
I might sujest using a return line to tune your fuel some so you don't get all the exra timing from the PCM not being able to 'see' all the boost because of the DTEC/map/pcm and then adding W/I to control the knock even more... just an idea, I've been keeping my eye on the develpment of that SCT

Interesting. So, you'd intentionally run it lean from the pump, and dial in more injector pulse with the DTEC? I like that perspective. I thought I covered dialing in more fuel with the DTEC. Just didn't think about the return. Of course....I could use one of them myself, but....

SRTFan12009
07-04-2019, 05:46 PM
I have gotten ahead of myself when I made my signature because I was not very active for awile. Here are the mods that are currently on my car, followed by a list of mods sitting in my room, followed by soon to come, followed by current problems in my car:
Currently on:
AGP 50 trim turbo with ceramic ball bearings kit
HKS Super Sequential B.O.V
RC Engineering 750cc injectors
Walbro 255lph High pressure Fuel Pump
AGP Fuel Return Line with Aeromotive regulator
DTEC Fuel Computer/Boost Controller
Turbo XS Knock Light/Shift Light
Turbo XS Wideband O2 Sensor
JMB upper and lower pressure pipes
Exhaust Depot FMIC
Ultimate 3" Cold Air Intake with 8" K & N filter
Extrude Honed Intake Manifold
MP 62mm Throttle Body
Devils Own Progressive Water/Meth Injection System-this is on but not hooked up, I have no methanol
Needswings 3" downpipe
McCord electric cutout
Short throw shifter 60% reduction
TNS Triple Gauge Pod
Autometer Lunar series Fuel Pressure Gauge
Autometer Lunar series Oil Pressure Gauge
GReddy Turbo Timer
NGK RACE Iridium SRT-4 Spark Plugs- these are 2 heat ranges colder then stock
MSD 8.5mm SRT-4 Spark Plug Wires
MSD Coil Pack
Turbo XS Universal Oil Catch Can
Falken Azenis RT-615 Tires
Mopar Rear Tension Strut Kit
GoldLine lowering springs
180 Degree thermostat
Koyo aluminum radiator

Sitting in my room waiting for my friend to come back from leave
Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch kit
DSS Axles
AGP engine and tranny mounts
Cold Fusion Nitrous Wet Kit
Autometer Lunar Series Nitrous Gauge
Fidanza Adjustable Cam Gears
Crower Stage 2 Street/Strip Camshafts
Crower Springs and Retaining Set

Stuff to get in the near future:
MP Under Drive Pulley
MSD DIS-2 ignition system
nitrous intercooler spray kit
Engine rebuild kit
silicone hoses for radiator
Aluminum Flywheel
Crank Scraper
Brake lines, rotors, pads,calipers
Front Strut Bar
Racing Seatbelts
Mini fire extinguisher
maybe a roll cage

Current Problems:
Car sounds like it does not want to turn over, which sparked the ignition timing question can take several times to start.
Knock light always illuminated green
Oil Pressure gauge reading 0 all the time
Constant boost leaks, the catch can lines blew off, the coupler connecting my C.A.I piece blew off and down the outside of the pipe with 2 hose clamps on it, we replaced it with 3 inch radiator tubing from NAPA. Also that line in the back of car near the intake side of the turbo that if it were to come off it becomes extremely hard to break blew off, the pipes attached to the intercooler have both been blown off, the B.O.V blew off. this is with the wastegate spring changed to the one that opens at 18 psi instead of 9 psi. I want to run 30 psi of boost, but I was told a more realistic goal was mid 20's. The highest boost we set was 23 psi. When all this stuff is connected I do have boost, but I am tired of opening the hood to see what blew off. I do need help tuning it, my friend is more of a fan of V-8s and big blocks. I tried to take it to the dyno to get tuned but because of the constant boost leaks they did not want to touch it saying fix those leaks first and then we will help you tune it. I have five fault codes currently on my car I am pretty sure these mods have created all of them and as well as my Malfunction Indicator light being on, the little red oil can is also always on to. This is my daily driver, any insight would be helpful so my car can be the beast it is capable of being. The five fault codes are as follows:
P2074
P0073
P0522
P0038
P0108
I believe one of those codes is a misfire, I first experienced that code when I first started changing stuff out. The coil pack, spark plugs, spark plug wires, Intake manifold and throttle body were my first mods installed. If that helps. The rest of the mods were done later. Any help is greatly appreciated thanks for reading this novel.
-Ed

SRTFan12009
07-04-2019, 06:02 PM
My first goal is to break 400 hp and 400 ft lbs of tq off the bottle and aftermarket cams not on my next goal if possible would be to break the 10 second mark with extensive work on the engine tranny and the whole car, and after a few more deployments.

Stage2BlackSRT4
07-04-2019, 06:24 PM
My first goal is to break 400 hp and 400 ft lbs of tq off the bottle and aftermarket cams not on my next goal if possible would be to break the 10 second mark with extensive work on the engine tranny and the whole car, and after a few more deployments.

The 400 HP should be easy with all that stuff an a minor tune

Thirteens420k
07-04-2019, 11:19 PM
I'd ditch the MSD coil pack and wires. They've been known to have problems with misfiring. While your in there, replace your spark plugs with new ones and use a good spark plug gapper to make sure there all the same(not a round keychain one from pepboys) Your misfire code(s) will go away. Now you are getting limp mode and i believe off the top of my head a no cat code. If you have all this time and money invested, why don't you add a s1 computer on your list and stop worring about those. Seriously it's well worth it. As far as the oil light being on, it's either really low/empty and you should check it and fill it up, a bad sensor, or the light tripped somewhere in it's wiring. Usually motors don't last longer than 15 seconds after the oil light comes and stays on so it may just be what i've stated above. You also said your oil pressure gauge stays at 0. Did it work before the oil light was on? Also, where do you have the sender mounted to the block? Have you checked the lines from it recently? Is there power to the gauge?
On the starting problem, does it crank, but slowly? Or does it not try and turn over at all? I had a similar problem recently and it was my wires to the starter were fried. The mounting stud for the power wire and fusable link was loose in the starter solenoid and causing it to arch and fry my wiring. So first check your battery voltage. It should be in the 13's somewhere once the ignition is powered(but not started). If the voltage checks out, take a look at your starter through the runners of your intake manifold. See if you see anything melted in there.
As far as the pipes blowing off, you really need to look into t-bolt clamps. T-bolt clamp everything you possibly can. Or look into these clamps: http://www.powerengineering.co.uk/mikalor/
Zip tie all of your vacuum lines and put a worm clamp on any fuel line used for your catch can or other various connections in the car. Boost leak test once a month at least.
Your goal for 400 is very attainable. I've seen it many times. You just gotta make sure you have everything taken care of and you will get there no problem. The turbo is capable of 30 psi, but without everything A OK, you'll be blowing off pipes and lines left and right.
-Garrett

Курс обучение на базе салона красоты: администратор, директоров, управляющий, менеджер, мастер-парикмахер
SRTFan12009
07-23-2019, 12:16 PM
Sorry I don't get alot of time to come on, I have been training to redeploy. If I have a DTEC which is supposed to trick the ECU why should I have to get a stage 1 or stage 3 ECU? Could I have a link to SCT's website? I am only coming up with Ford Mustang stuff. If I could have done it differently I should have invested in AEM's Standalone Engine Management becuase my DTEC controls only Fuel and Boost but not ignition, or should I get that DIS-2 MSD ignition box? I am looking for a coil pack that would be just as good as MSD's maybe Screaming Demon? What size spark plug wires should I be using with my setup if I could have some recommendations as well as with spark plugs, my Magnacors wires were 8.5MM. We regapped the spark plugs at .022, still no change. I took it to the Dyno to do some tuning of the air/fuel ratio when I am came to experience another problem. Around 2500 RPMs in 1st and 2nd Gear the car gets stuck, almost like a delay, or like air is being restricted then finally being pushed through when so much builds up and I do not think it is turbo lag. For my oil pressure problem, the sending unit was bad. I was thinking about selling all of the DTEC stuff and getting the AEM system, or maybe the SCT system because I ran into another problem. If I set boost at lets say 15 PSI on my DTEC, and then go for a ride I can build boost up to about 28 psi then I get limited ( oh yea recently put a 35 psi boost gauge on). So I took that top vacuum line off the wastegate and am running on pure spring that opens at 18 psi so I get about 15 psi of boost, is my boost controller bad?. I was thinking about just getting a custom wastegate spring that opens at 30 psi from turbonetics. I wish I had one of you guys around here locally because the dyno shop guys will gladly troubleshoot for $66 an hour and thats what I don't need.
-Ed

blackbird
07-24-2019, 08:51 AM
Pretty big posts and it might be better to break the questions down into a couple different threads (current issues, upgrade path recommendations, etc.). I'll just jump in just randomly go over things as I read or see them. First off is it kind of sounds like you're throwing parts at the car and hoping for a goal (400/400+) without thinking things through and making a specific plan on how to get there and what you actually need to get to your goals. The down side to the "throw everything at the car" is it's expensive and if something breaks that you should have upgraded but didn't you may take out some of those new parts, or you may upgrade some parts but still need others to safely reach your goal. For example you've got a big turbo, have a water/alky injection kit, but are talking about installing a nitrous kit. I almost guarantee that is going to be a recipe to kill a stock bottom end if you're not extremely careful with your current modifications and what you're waiting to install.

On the performance stuff you already have installed I went through and cleaned up your list. That means taking out things that don't significantly affect overall performance (plug wires, charge pipes, gauges, BOV, etc.) and removed some things like exhaust and intake which are required to support that turbo. Some like the ported intake manifold and throttle body should help way more on a big turbo car but don't significantly effect performance and how you need to tune or what else you'll need to reach your goals.

Currently on:
AGP 50 trim turbo with ceramic ball bearings kit
RC Engineering 750cc injectors
AGP Fuel Return Line with Aeromotive regulator w/255 pump
DTEC Fuel Computer/Boost Controller
Exhaust Depot FMIC
Devils Own Progressive Water/Meth Injection System-this is on but not hooked up, I have no methanol

That's a fairly standard big turbo build for the SRT-4's. You've got the turbo, a piggyback (DTEC), fuel return kit so you can adjust fuel pressure, big injectors, and the little stuff need to bolt it up. It sounds like you've got some drivability problems right now and that may very well be due to your selection of parts. Those injectors are really big to be using with a piggyback and when combined with fuel pressure low enough to idle somewhat correctly it may not work well in a daily driver. If you only wanted to make 400 hp right now until you upgrade internals or whatever then I'd say the injectors are too big for you current control setup and 650's would be a better choice.



Sitting in my room waiting for my friend to come back from leave
Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch kit
DSS Axles
AGP engine and tranny mounts
Cold Fusion Nitrous Wet Kit
Autometer Lunar Series Nitrous Gauge
Fidanza Adjustable Cam Gears
Crower Stage 2 Street/Strip Camshafts
Crower Springs and Retaining Set

On the non-installed items you already have the engine mounts are a good idea and if you're still on a stock clutch the CM S4 should hold torque way better when you turn up the boost. The stock axles are dirt cheap and hold up great unless you're trying to run giant power on big slicks at a sticky track all the time and some DSS stuff has even been known to fail under those conditions so I'd probably keep the axles as spares until you actually break or need one. The nitrous is a personal choice but I don't think it's a very wise one for your car. It's going to put an extremely high stresses on the internals as it will significantly raise cylinder pressure nearly instantly and until you get an actual way to pull timing advance out it's asking for trouble. All the stock and "Stage" computers already run too much advance for even most big turbo cars but due to the engine being pretty tough they somehow live for awhile if you don't get any significant hiccups while running a lot of boost. But even running mild boost and nitrous on your current control setup is asking for trouble. As for the cylinder head stuff the stock head and setup works reasonably well but there is room for improvement. It would have been better to do the engine internals first, but you should see some nice gains in power from them. Trouble is the custom cams is going to require some dyno tuning time to get dialed in properly and if you make any other significant changes might need retuned later for absolute optimal performance.


Stuff to get in the near future:
MP Under Drive Pulley
MSD DIS-2 ignition system
nitrous intercooler spray kit
Engine rebuild kit
silicone hoses for radiator
Aluminum Flywheel
Crank Scraper
Brake lines, rotors, pads,calipers
Front Strut Bar
Racing Seatbelts
Mini fire extinguisher
maybe a roll cage

Just looking at the list of things you're considering is one of the main things that set off a subconscious trigger that you're throwing parts at the car. Take the roll cage for example. Do you want this car to be a daily driven street car still or a weekend drag-only car? Installing any type of cage will render your back seat completely useless for passengers and can be more dangerous on the street when you're not wearing a helmet. The padding will not protect you in an accident if your head hits it and you move around way more than you think you would in a sever impact. Take your hand and slam it into a metal bar as hard as you can. Now take your hand traveling at 50 mph and slam it into the bar. Now imaging your head doing the same thing. :grim: Even a cage that doesn't extend into the front passenger area can still pose a danger on the street.

Aluminum flywheel may be nice but may also decrease drivability. Some lightweight aluminum ones aren't certified to be drag raced due to potential to come apart. Why upgrade silicone hoses for the radiator when stock ones are fine? You've already bought an aftermarket radiator but were you having any cooling issues with the OEM piece? The under drive pulley is only going to be worth a few horsepower and has been linked to increased chances of oil pump failure on the SRT-4's. A nitrous intercooler sprayer is going to be expensive and even if you run CO2 is still an expendable item and can stress the intercooler construction quite a bit over time. A MSD programmable ignition might be good for your current setup if you want or need to pull some timing for better safety but if you plan to go a stand-alone EMS or reflash the stock computer (SCT) then it would no longer be needed and would be wasted money. If you really want to build a 10-second or faster car the stock pistons are going to be a weak link. You might get a few runs out but it's a ticking time bomb. If you go wild the bed plate might be an issue, the oiling system is definitely a concern, along with some other things rods to consider depending on if you stay with nitrous or run big boost.


Current Problems:
Car sounds like it does not want to turn over, which sparked the ignition timing question can take several times to start.
Knock light always illuminated green
Oil Pressure gauge reading 0 all the time
Constant boost leaks, the catch can lines blew off, the coupler connecting my C.A.I piece blew off and down the outside of the pipe with 2 hose clamps on it, we replaced it with 3 inch radiator tubing from NAPA. Also that line in the back of car near the intake side of the turbo that if it were to come off it becomes extremely hard to break blew off, the pipes attached to the intercooler have both been blown off, the B.O.V blew off. this is with the wastegate spring changed to the one that opens at 18 psi instead of 9 psi. I want to run 30 psi of boost, but I was told a more realistic goal was mid 20's. The highest boost we set was 23 psi. When all this stuff is connected I do have boost, but I am tired of opening the hood to see what blew off. I do need help tuning it, my friend is more of a fan of V-8s and big blocks. I tried to take it to the dyno to get tuned but because of the constant boost leaks they did not want to touch it saying fix those leaks first and then we will help you tune it. I have five fault codes currently on my car I am pretty sure these mods have created all of them and as well as my Malfunction Indicator light being on, the little red oil can is also always on to. This is my daily driver, any insight would be helpful so my car can be the beast it is capable of being. The five fault codes are as follows:
P2074
P0073
P0522
P0038
P0108
I believe one of those codes is a misfire, I first experienced that code when I first started changing stuff out. The coil pack, spark plugs, spark plug wires, Intake manifold and throttle body were my first mods installed. If that helps. The rest of the mods were done later. Any help is greatly appreciated thanks for reading this novel.
-Ed

On this list of problems it sounds like you got the oil sender sorted out. The hard starting could be from a number of reasons but I'd suspect a fuel priming issue. You may want to check what fuel pressure is doing and that you don't have a leak or incorrectly installed the fuel pressure regulator where it leaks down too much or there's another bottle neck or problem caused when the pump was installed.

On the knock light I've heard they do work ok on the DTEC but have you actually verified whether there is really knock present? To do that you would need a high end scan tool or better yet one of the scan gauges that can show knock retard in degrees. If you're "tuning" the car right now without one and have no idea of what timing is doing and you're just playing with fuel pressure and DTEC settings to get a "good" A/F your engine could be in pretty big danger.

The boost leaks could be caused by a number of things. You'll want to add some nice clamps and zip tie all of the vacuum line fitting and connections and maybe take a look and see that you haven't misrouted something. The crankcase should never be highly pressurized so saying catch can lines come off would have me wanting to check and make sure you've got everything hooked up the way it should. If you added a bunch of aftermarket charge pipes and they don't fit perfect and are always coming apart I'd consider going back to the stock pieces for now. You won't significantly hurt performance and it might work better on a daily driven car.

On the boost issue why is 30 psi a goal? It may sound nice but you should necessarily true to shoot for a certain boost figure as there a lot of variable that will affect overall performance. Like on pump premium with a piggyback and stock/Stage PCM you'll be getting a lot of timing advance and even 23 psi is normally a little too much for that turbo and setup. You need some additional monitoring equipment to see things like what timing and knock are doing in addition to A/F to see what you can safely run. And I wouldn't expect a safe 400/400 on pump gas with your setup. Sure you can hook up the water/alky injection and maybe get it reasonably safe but it's a clogged nozzle or failed pump away from toasting an engine if you suddenly got heavy knock with a ton of timing at high boost and cylinder pressure.

Running the stock computer and "tricking" it does result in a lot of codes. I haven't scrubbed that list but there's quite a few sites on the internet that can tell you what they mean. If you insist on staying with the fuel pressure/piggyback setup and maybe add the MSD ignition to pull timing instead of going with a stand-alone or reflash the Stage 1 PCM would be a wise choice if you don't want to see and deal with a lot of stuff. If you're upgrading to one of those then you might as well stay stock and work with what you have.

For the misfire I'll get to that in a second. On to your next post.



Sorry I don't get alot of time to come on, I have been training to redeploy. If I have a DTEC which is supposed to trick the ECU why should I have to get a stage 1 or stage 3 ECU? Could I have a link to SCT's website? I am only coming up with Ford Mustang stuff. If I could have done it differently I should have invested in AEM's Standalone Engine Management becuase my DTEC controls only Fuel and Boost but not ignition, or should I get that DIS-2 MSD ignition box? I am looking for a coil pack that would be just as good as MSD's maybe Screaming Demon? What size spark plug wires should I be using with my setup if I could have some recommendations as well as with spark plugs, my Magnacors wires were 8.5MM. We regapped the spark plugs at .022, still no change. I took it to the Dyno to do some tuning of the air/fuel ratio when I am came to experience another problem. Around 2500 RPMs in 1st and 2nd Gear the car gets stuck, almost like a delay, or like air is being restricted then finally being pushed through when so much builds up and I do not think it is turbo lag. For my oil pressure problem, the sending unit was bad. I was thinking about selling all of the DTEC stuff and getting the AEM system, or maybe the SCT system because I ran into another problem. If I set boost at lets say 15 PSI on my DTEC, and then go for a ride I can build boost up to about 28 psi then I get limited ( oh yea recently put a 35 psi boost gauge on). So I took that top vacuum line off the wastegate and am running on pure spring that opens at 18 psi so I get about 15 psi of boost, is my boost controller bad?. I was thinking about just getting a custom wastegate spring that opens at 30 psi from turbonetics. I wish I had one of you guys around here locally because the dyno shop guys will gladly troubleshoot for $66 an hour and thats what I don't need.
-Ed
If you have the DTEC and are "tuning" the car yourself and not sure of exactly how it works and what it does you might want to read up a little more. It does essentially trick the PCM by altering the voltage levels for the MAP sensor that reaches the computer. So if you pull fuel with the DTEC it tells the compute you're running less boost so it injectors less fuel but also has the side affect of making it think the car is not under as high of a load as it is and will also increase timing. If you're going to stick with setup then adding a S1 computer would suppress a lot of codes and check engine lights you're getting.

On the SCT stuff they haven't officially released it yet and it sounds like the SRT-4 will be the test bed for all the Chrysler stuff. You can call them up and pre-order for a slight discount and it's supposedly shipping at the beginning of next month. The following thread on the other site is a good read and you should go through the whole thing if you haven't already.

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358439

It will be great to have full control over the stock computer and to recalibrate/program it but it doesn't sounds like you've done that before so consider the cost of finding someone to tune your car and make sure it's someone with a ton of experience who can safely get good power out of it. You could still add the MSD ignition box and program it to take out timing with your current return line/piggyback setup but it's still not optimal.

If you want the best coil pack you can get then go back to stock. All the aftermarket ones have a high rate of failure and will not do anything the stock one can't except lighten your wallet. The Magnecor's are great wires just be careful taking them off not to stress them (which goes for all wires) and use some dielectric grease in the boots. On plugs I don't like the iridium types a lot but for a while that was all we had in colder plug heat ranges some of the nitrous or big turbo cars needed. If you go to sparkplugs.com they supposedly have some colder basic copper NGK's I'd try. Also don't go crazy on plug gap. If the plug is designed for a .050 gap and you run half of that the ground electrode will be really bent out of shape to gap that close and can cause issues. In general the wider the gap the better for ignition up to the point where you get blow out. I'm guessing that may not be what's happening in your case. Maybe try around .030 to .035 on some new copper plugs.

It sounds like you have drivability issues that are related to how you're tuning and what you've done to the car. The stumble that you describe as a pause in boost might be from running way too rich, the fuel trims, spark problems related to those issues, or something else. I'm not sure on the boost issues but if you're just setting a boost level and not watching exactly what the A/F is doing along with the knock and other OBD-II data logging info you're in for trouble. You can't just play with settings and expect it to run perfect. If you had a very reputable tuner in your area then it might be wise to let them take a look at your setup if this is how you expect to run the car for a while. If you're going to upgrade to a stand-alone or reflash you'd need to do it all over again. The bad thing is there are a lot of people who can tweak settings and call themselves a tuner but may not be very good. And unless you are extremely experienced it's hard to spot that. So it may be good to really research a local tuning shop or start trying to learn how to do it yourself and spend a little more on data logging equipment.

blackbird
07-24-2019, 09:55 AM
And since they recently posted it here's the link to the SCT package to be released.

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5043927

DJOrtiz
07-24-2019, 09:51 PM
Interesting. So, you'd intentionally run it lean from the pump, and dial in more injector pulse with the DTEC? I like that perspective. I thought I covered dialing in more fuel with the DTEC. Just didn't think about the return. Of course....I could use one of them myself, but....
do you do this anyways even if you dont have water/alky injection?

i have my stock pressure at 56-58 psi on the FPR, do i:

turn down the PSI to say 38 and add a vac line and dialing in more fuel with the Dtec? sorry to thread jack but i like learnign too...

Low-Speed
07-24-2019, 11:57 PM
do you do this anyways even if you dont have water/alky injection?

i have my stock pressure at 56-58 psi on the FPR, do i:

turn down the PSI to say 38 and add a vac line and dialing in more fuel with the Dtec? sorry to thread jack but i like learnign too...


You'd do this ESPECIALLY if you don't have water/alky.

By increasing the MAP Signal, you make the car think it has more boost. It cranks up the injector cycle and decreases the timing, to prevent knock.

You then tune the fuel closer using the return, by lowering the pressure, so that it's not flooding out at least. (Perhaps 11:1???)

This gives it less initial timing, but no knock, and no knock retard this way, hopefully.

blackbird
07-25-2019, 04:54 AM
For a big turbo car you generally want to lower timing advance under higher boost because the stock/stage PCM run too much for those increased cylinder pressures and the stock turbo cars want to keep it reasonably high for EGT reasons (which they can get away with running a lot more because of the reduced/dropping air flow on the top end). Optimally you want to keep it as high as possible just below the onset of knock on both setups for best power but that's pretty much impossible to do without a stand-alone or reprogramming capabilities.

You sure can use a lot of the piggyback setups to add/increase fueling by telling the computer you're running more boost than what you are but it gets a little tricky. First off is the stock MAP sensor is a 2.25 BAR and only reads up to a max of a little over ~18 psi (and may be a little less depending on starting atmospheric conditions/low pressure such as if you live at a high elevation). If you're running a big turbo on a stock/S1 computer you still need to clamp or limit the MAP voltage to an equivalent of just under that limit.

You also have to balance out fuel pressure and when and where the piggyback is applying extra MAP signal (to increase fuel/reduce timing). If you have the fuel pressure too low where you have to add via the piggyback at idle and lower boost the drivability may suffer since it may think you are in boost. And with lower fuel pressure if you're adding in the mid range you'd want to look at what and how much that affects what you do on the top end and vice versa.

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